science, health, satire, vaccines.

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA – A large tertiary care center in Sydney, Australia is pulling out all the stops to try and cut their expenses. As of next month, all doctors and nurses currently on staff will be replaced by parents who have done research on the Internet.

“I can’t tell you how happy and relieved I am when a patient tells me they have done some research on the internet” said head of neurology, Dr. Eric Sheppard. “It’s only topped by a patient telling me they have a family member who is a nurse.”

The hospital is excited about how much money this move should save them, not to mention the overwhelming support from parents everywhere.

“This is a great move in my opinion” said anti-vaccer Meryl Dorey. “Most parents know more than doctors anyways, so this is a huge step in the right direction.”

The current staff are in the process of being moved to other, less innovative health centers.

 

SP Team
Evil doktor, pharma shill, vaccine chemist, Monsanto spokesperson, GMO lobbyist, chemtrail deployer and false flag organizer.
  • JustJoeToo

    That seems to be a win win win big win situation. The care center get’s to cut expenses, parents get to exercise their rights to determine the medical necessities of their home grown property, health insurance companies costs will drop dramatically with no Doctors or nurses to pay.
    AND best of all…. all those Doctors can retire on their Big Pharma shill money.

    • Sue

      Great model! I suggest all non-vaxed kids are admitted there!

      • annoying miss

        67% of those that got pertussis were FULLY Vaccinated,,
        and with polio and measles, they were contained way before the vaccine came out.

        but you wouldn’t know that because you are too busy eye-balling my kids,

        • MisterLiteral

          Cite your sources please.

          No one is “eye-balling” your kids…. sheesh!

          • Mark Wynn

            There attempts at humor, and then there are things one doesn’t accuse others of … I feel annoying stepped over a line here.

      • annoying miss

        there won’t be any non-vaxed kids,, most of the doctors who support good health by other means have been murdered or is missing,

        • MisterLiteral

          Please cite your sources for these allegations.

          Otherwise, you are a liar.

    • Rebus

      Here’s a better idea, Joe. Stay the hell away from the hospital so sensible people don’t wait as long to access the quality healthcare they want.

      As for “Home grown property”. I’m sorry Joe, but this is the 21st century and your children are not your property to buy and sell as you please. What’s next? Advocating slave ownership?

      • Christian Busse

        oh my god you have actually just fallen out of a tree, you are that retarded. you couldn’t even see sarcasm if it was pouring out of your eyes. please go and follow your own advice because I don’t want to share this earth with you and your potential children!

        • Annoyed

          Could you not find a better word than the R word? You might recognise sarcasm when you see it but you think it’s ok to insult people with disabilities. People in glass houses and all that.

        • 1. Can you not use an extremely derogatory term to insult someone you think is wrong?
          2. This is the internet. It’s hard to read tone out of written words. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the OP was not being sarcastic at all, considering the crap I’ve read and heard from anti-vaxxers and anti-science people.

          • Andrew Johnston

            Poe’s Law.

        • Please try to keep comments clear of derogatory terms such as “retard” or “retarded”. In the future, your comment will be deleted immediately.

          Thanks,
          The Spudd Team.

          • Jim Clayton

            Wow. If the Team really cared about that slur, they’d have already deleted it. Folks continue to see it and be affected be it, as long as it’s left up. Why even comment on it if you’re not going to act on it? Delete the comment, or at least delete your claim that you’ll delete future ones.

          • Mark Wynn

            Gee, there seems to be a sensible monitor at this seemingly anything goes site. Who knew?

        • Matt Green

          I support your use of words. Some of my best friends are words. I will give the language police a nice hug for the hurt feelings.

      • JustJoeToo

        Did I just walk into the twilight zone?
        There is a breed of human who are unable to detect sarcastic humor on a sarcastic humor site?
        I so lament the deterioration of human cognition.

        • Mark Wynn

          You can’t use sarcasm with kleptomaniacs because they always take it literally.

  • Dick

    It had to come. Doctors have for so long been educated but insensitive and arrogant in their interaction with patients and their families, especially when children are involved. Perhaps the universities will get a better perspective in their recruitment of future medical practitioners with this move. Just have a consultation with overseas medical graduates to encounter prejudice, racist and religious prejudices and incompetence. Parents and families deserve better than the medical pofessionis currently providing.

    • Daragh Rice

      Not sure if

    • annaj

      codswallop

    • Finn

      Dick, this is satire. There’s no way a hospital actually did this. The liability alone and the amount of damage the patients would do to each other is enough to preclude this from ever happening. Not to mention how many people would actually die if this move were to be real.

  • Eric Marsh

    The problem is that doctor’s aren’t alway right either.

    My wife developed symptoms for pancreatitis. She made that determination after doing a little research on the web. It took something like seven doctors who checked her for everything from heart issues to removing her gall bladder before it was determined that she had pancreatitis.

    • Danika

      Yes, but what was the pancreatitis caused by? Two of the biggest causes of pancreatitis are alcoholism and gallstones. It’s called gallstone pancreatitis. It happens when the stones travel into the pancreatic duct. Also, once that happens you have a VERY high chance of reoccurring attacks within a few months. As someone who suffered from Gallstone pancreatitis, as well as having gas trapping, and esophageal spasms, I can tell you that the pain in all of them is fairly similar. Also, heart conditions can manifest as epigastric pain, as well. From what you described, it sounds like it was a pretty good team of doctors trying to rule out all possibilities.

      • Eric Marsh

        Well, alcohol is not an issue.

        Here’s the problem. Janet examined the evidence and came up with a hypothesis that was rejected out of hand by the first eight doctors. It was a very straight forward hypothesis based on symptoms looked up on WebMD and some other legitimate medical web sites. Doctor number nine (eight months and many tens of thousands of dollars later) was a pancreatic specialist. His response was yes Janet was right and he had no idea why none of the other doctors didn’t identify the obvious.

        Why try to rule out all the other alternate possibilities before taking a look at the most obvious one first? What is that all about? The only thing that I can come up with is that people go with what they know. Doctors are not special in this regard.

        Incidentally Janet’s symptoms first appeared a couple days after we returned from Europe. When we took another trip to Europe here symptoms disappeared and when we returned so did they. We’re heading for Portugal in a couple months and I’ll be interested in seeing if it happens again.

        • Danika

          Did they say if it was related to her gallbladder? I’m definitely confused by the fact that they didn’t do simple blood tests. That was how they found mine. It was a standard panel. Then again, my feeling is that if you have a large enough group of people, you’ll always run across a few bad apples. I’ve had great experiences and horrible ones. I DID notice that the one time I invoked my uncle “the surgeon” (he specifically deals with surgeries like the one I had done and got all sorts of bad side effects from) and told the doctor which studies he wanted done, the physician completely ignored me. It’s the only time I ever signed myself out AMA (against medical advice). The next time I went to the same hospital, they found our what was wrong with me ridiculously quick, and it was an amazing trip!

          • Eric Marsh

            No, they didn’t say that it was gall bladder related. They just took the gall bladder out because it was in the region that hurt. A lot of the doctors really had no clue so they bounced her around until she ended up with a specialist.

          • markus welby

            this has to be a joke i hope! This comes from FP and ER Doc who has devoted his life to giving the highest level of care possible to his patients and taught scores of nurse practitioners to do the same! Listen to your patients history carefully and they will often tell you whats wrong with them. To think that 12 years of training after high school and 30 years of practice can be replaced by reading the internet and matching symptoms to a diagnosis is insane, who orders the xrays and labs ? Who will interpret the results. and one more Comment Shill money( dont know the term really) does not exist in the USA for primary care doctors! A very common misconception that we got kickbacks for writing certain scripts for high priced medications! We cant even sell generic drugs in our office to save patients time and money! wow i can retire now! hooray!!! 80 hour weeks are over!! Dr Marcus Welby MD

          • Laura

            “To think that 12 years of training after high school and 30 years of
            practice can be replaced by reading the internet and matching symptoms
            to a diagnosis is insane”
            And did Eric Marsh say any such thing? I don’t see where he did.

          • Skye Russell Comstock

            As an RN who was also offended by this fake article I thank you for being the first one in the comments I’ve read so far that seems to know this article is a joke (which seems to me to be a strong argument against learning on Google. Lol).

          • annoying miss

            well,,don’t do anything without asking your doctor,,,and a second opinion has caused a lot of trouble among docs, Who Don’t Agree,,

          • Eric Marsh

            Janet’s case no joke. The article is obviously satire. If you really are a real doctor it might be fun to discuss the case with you off-line.

          • annoying miss

            you docs need to start looking online too,, by fighting and insulting and telling people to not eat veggie greens or grapefruit just eat drugs that are killing family and friends won’t help either,,,we have no choice, but to look everywhere and at everything we can to save our lives,, ”what power you have ,,too bad there is not three medical universities in each town,,

          • Bobby

            Should of went straight to a specialist after her gall bladder was removed and she was still in pain.

          • Eric Marsh

            I wish we had but we were just following the various doctor’s recommendations. One led to another who led to another before one finally recommended the specialist.

          • annoying miss

            so they can take out other car parts,?

          • annoying miss

            they don’t know what they are doing half the time and more people die from the hands of doctors than from murder, i think it is legal murder,, shhh,,

          • annoying miss

            you docs need to start looking online too,, by fighting and insulting and telling people to not eat veggie greens or grapefruit just eat drugs that are killing family and friends won’t help either,,,we have no choice, but to look everywhere and at everything we can to save our lives,, ”what power you have ,,too bad there is not three medical universities in each town,,

        • Brendon

          I’m calling absolute BS on this one for numerous reasons. Firstly if the symptoms your wife suffered were remotely like pancreatitis, and I’m assuming they were since a Google search gave you the answer, then any doctor with 2 brain cells to rub together would have ordered a lipase on her routine bloods – this would have given the diagnosis. Secondly, there is NO WAY 8 doctors looked at your wife with symptoms of pancreatitis and didn’t put this on their list of differentials. Impossible. Whether you wish to admit it or not, medicine is a very very difficult field to gainentry into and only relatively intelligent people are given the opportunity to become doctors. These people then go on to study for 1000s of hours, in depth, diseases much more obscure and unusual than common place pancreatitis. So on the concept of 8 consecutive doctors being unable to recognise the basic signs and symptoms of pancreatitis, I say BS!! And finally, the fact that a surgeon would remove your wife’s gallbladder based on the concept that it was in the vicinity of her discomfort is utterly ludicrous. Acute cholecystitis (inflamed gallbladder) is diagnosed by a combination of history, examination, blood tests and ultrasound – not guesswork. I realise that you are most likely simply misinformed, and for that I apologise for this blunt reply, but I’m tired of allowing this kind of silliness to fly under the radar.

          • Eric Marsh

            Brendon, you can call BS if you like. What you are doing is calling me a liar because my experiences do not align with your view of the world. You know he old saying about walking a mile in another man’s shoes don’t you?

          • annoying miss

            yeah,, most of the time 8 doctors would not be around,, she would die from the medicine improperly prescribed for the wrong diagnosis and may not even get an autopsy,, they will just say ‘she died of natural causes ,, like they said about my mom, and 3 other family members,, yes,, some did come back alive from the concentration camps,,

      • annoying miss

        i had a team of doctors in the ER,, and one of them was kind enough to tell me what the others would not,

    • Spiritbx

      You are right, Doctors are not always right, but they are only human. The thing with medicine is that nit deals with the human body, something that is sometimes pretty weird and unpredictable. They are simply the best at finding out what you may have.

      If you don’t trust a doctor’s conclusion you can always get a second or third opinion from other doctors. It’s all about probability man, doctors have the highest chance of figuring out what’s wrong with you, overconfident morons from facebook have very little chance of doing so. I’ll take my chance with a doctor any day rather than someone with medical degree from facebook.

      • annoying miss

        a good doctor will give good books,,and post on facebook, to make health care affordable,,

    • Laura

      Doctors are not always right.
      But does that mean that your wife should be hired as a doctor at the hospital? No.
      Does it even mean that the doctors were wrong to do all those other tests?
      No, it doesn’t mean that.
      Yes, do your research. I read on my own medical problems too.
      But that just means you can be a more effective partner with doctors. It doesn’t mean you can replace them.

      • Donald Bley

        The role of the physician is to entertain the patient while Nature takes its course. Voltaire

        • andythebouncer

          In The 18th century that was completely true. Never could find a reliable source for that quote.

          • Donald Bley

            Doctors are men who prescribe drugs, about which they know little, to cure diseases, about which they know less, to patients, about whom they know nothing. Voltaire

            Doctors will have more lives to answer for in the next world than even we generals. Napoleon

            To you, andythebouncer, from Donald Bley, MD Class of 1972 Duke University School of Medicine

          • andythebouncer

            Things have changed since the 19th century, too.

            Yes, I am aware that it was attributed to Voltaire in that book, but Donald Bley is not Voltaire, and Voltaire was quite unable to collaborate on publications in 1972. If it really is Voltaire, there must be a primary source, no?

          • LinnieMae

            Voltaire? I read that Ben Franklin uploaded it to his website.

      • annoying miss

        that means we should open up more medical colleges and train everyone to be doctors,,for free,,

        • Laura

          Most people couldn’t get through medical training.
          Most people also wouldn’t want to give years of their lives to learning everything doctors have to learn, either.

    • Terry

      Cool story. I wonder what actually happened.

      I’ve lost count of the number of people who attend emergency saying “no one can tell me what’s wrong” or “they’ve given up on figuring it out” only to look at the chart and see that they’ve been told a diagnosis many times or they’ve simply failed to attend outpatient appointments or tests and haven’t responded to any phone calls or letters. Honestly probably one of these a day. People seem obsessed with being ‘unique’ or ‘a mystery’ medically – so much so that they seem to actively ignore any advice or conclusions they’re told. They’d simple much rather be able to say ‘doctors can’t figure me out’.

      Anyone with abdo pain coming to ED or a GP is highly likely to have a lipase checked. Pancreatitis ruled in or out with one test – takes 20 minutes.

    • David Randall

      No, doctor’s aren’t always right. Everyone has war stories. But, it’s a matter of betting the odds:

      Real doctors: Right 90%
      Internet quacks: Right 0.1%

      If you really do know how to do literature research (peer reviewed sources, independently confirmed results, etc), you can in fact help your physician come to a correct diagnosis in a difficult case. But, if your “research” consists of “stuff people share on social media”, then trust your doctor. Steve Jobs would very likely be alive today if he had done so. (His cancer was discovered at an very early stage, and had an good prognosis had he followed the treatment recommended, instead of relying on his vegan diet.)

      • annoying miss

        he just got his heart checked out last week,, doc said he was fine,,as he lay dead of a heart attack in the ER that i was working in.
        remember,, docs say,, don’t eat grapefruit,, or greens, or herbs of any kind,, because of your rat poison, i mean heart meds ..

      • annoying miss

        maybe he didn’t even have cancer,, i’ve seen that too many times,

    • David Randall

      It is unlikely your wife originally had idiopathic pancreatitis. First, pancreatitis would have been immediately detected by routine blood screening; it’s not something that takes a dx to diagnose. It is virtually impossible for seven doctors to investigate multiple causes for your wife’s issues and miss pancreatitis.S econd, pancreatitis seldom if ever “just happens”, there is usually an underlying cause (like gallstones). So a diagnosis of pancreatitis generally isn’t an answer in itself; a root cause still needs to be found if possible. Finally, pancreatitis is a complication that can follow gall bladder removal, so it may not have been present originally.

      A likely scenario here is that her gall bladder was the original problem, and the pancreatitis was a complication that followed the surgery.

      If your wife had done just a little more research beyond simply a list of symptoms of pancreatitis, you would already know all this, which your seven doctors no doubt did know and may even have tried to explain to your wife.

      • Eric Marsh

        Well, all that I can tell you is that the gall bladder removal did not change the symptom of pain in any way.

      • annoying miss

        if she had done more google ,,she would not need a Gall Bladder removel,,,one tooth gone, means two, then three,, get a clue,,what is the cause,,that is the question,

    • Vegar Ottesen

      Sure, doctors also make mistakes and are imperfect. But that does not mean there is merit in the far worse option of going to “Google academy” and trying to gain information there. Sure, doctors can be wrong. Even the scientific consensus can be mistaken at times (rarely on central issues though) but they offer a far better option than un-trained people having a go at it themselves.
      The argument you seem to present: “Doctors are not perfect, therefore we need to consider the option of unlearned parents as options to them” (Feel free to correct my impression if it is off) is actually a logical fallacy called the “Nirvana fallacy” stating “A is not perfect, therefore B is valid” or “A is not perfect, therefore we should not do A” – which is not logically sound.

    • Adam B

      I don’t mean to be rude, but I find it highly unlikely that 7 doctors missed a diagnosis of pancreatitis. No one comes through the ER with abdominal pain without someone checking a lipase. A first year medical student could make that diagnosis. This is not some rare, unheard of disease. You see it every day. Gallstones are a cause of pancreatitis, in fact gallstones and alcohol are the most common causes of pancreatitis. So you’re wife probably had gallstones causing her initial symptoms, and then developed pancreatitis later on once the stone found it’s way in the bile duct. It’s ok not to know this as a patient, but don’t be one of those people who walks around hating doctors because of misinformation.

      • Eric Marsh

        Nobody hates doctors. It does seem rather amazing doesn’t it, but what I said is true. I’ve got MRIs, CT scans on DVDs and many more goodies to show. I’m seeing some people trying to explain away this and I’m sure that each of them has their reasons for doing so. But my wife and I are not dummies – we both have tech backgrounds that go back many decades. We approached this in a thoughtful manner and did our best to give the doctors the full story.

    • Spamihazit

      I am pretty sure that 100% of the time, 100% of doctors are 100% right. They don’t ever make mistakes or need to ask other doctors for help. That is why only perfect people get to be doctors.

      • mother goddam

        I’m pretty sure they have a higher average of success than graduates of Google U. Hence: the satire.

        • Spamihazit

          😉 absolutely. I just think it’s funny that some people think doctors are divine and don’t ever make mistakes. Of course they do. And of course I will continue to see the doctor, who’s making educated decisions and might once in a while make a mistake, whereas Internet strangers use google and conjecture 😉

    • Bobby

      Doctors although highly knowledgeable and trained are in fact only human. To err is human…. they are not gods. The best way to gain medical knowledge is to ask a Dr not google. Anyone contributes to the net. If one Dr is not familiar with something ask a different Dr. This is why we have specialists. Some Drs have more experience with particular illnesses.

      • Eric Marsh

        My point is that we did the basic research and then talked to each of the doctors about what we found. One of them just rolled his eyes. The others all seemed to focus on their specialties. The heart specialist did all the heart stuff and then admitted that he had no idea. His finally recommendation was pain management.

        When we finally got the the pancreatic specialist his take was basically “duh” why didn’t anyone else look at this?

        • Ruth Primmer

          If you “knew” what was wrong why didn’t you go straight to the GI specialist in the first place then?

          • Eric Marsh

            Because we trusted our doctors would do the right thing. And frankly we didn’t even know that there was a pancreatic (not GI) specialist.

  • They should at least have a B.Goog diploma from an accredited internet cafe though.

  • Jules

    Drs and health professionals in general are too busy to explain everything to parents (sometimes too busy to even listen, and we get it – you’re overworked and pushed to the brink). But, as parents we can’t win. If we are not informing ourselves we are “hopless, ignorant and just don’t care”. Now, if we try to understand and be informed we are “infuriating, stupid and overbaring”. Therefore, can’t win.

    • Christy

      Make your doctors explain in layman’ terms. Most of us will when we realize we are not getting through to our patients. If they don’t seem to care then tell them or switch doctors. And it’s great to do research but base it on reliable sources. Anybody can edit Wikipedia and other sources. And a friend of mine who generates statistics said that a statistician can make results prove anything you want if he’s unethical. There were even people trying to use an analysis to prove that smoking and lung cancer are not related. That’s the problem with the Internet. We want you to be informed and I point my patients to reliable internet sources like CDC, NIH, American Academy of Pediatrics. It’s not doctors against parents. We are a collaboration with the same goal and desire to make kids healthy and keep them safe. In fact a lot of doctors are parents too.

      • Bobby

        Absolutely ask your Dr NOT google lol

    • Nefash

      There’s a difference between being informed and thinking you’re more of an expert than an actual expert.

      • Michael Muryn

        Nefash, but we need not escalate too fast if we are in the expert seat, or act as if the so called expert have the answer to everything. Especially instantly. Some people need to look up, verifying and then find the solution to the problems. Of course, lot of doctors try to apply a protocol and take some quick decision to be efficient. For common and easy to diagnostic problems, that is fine. But when that is not achievable, the patient is often left without any solution. That is when it gets scary for him.

        It is OK to challenge, it is actually a good way to understand in a *discussion*. It all depends how you take it. “But I read that… [on a supposedly credible source]” is a valid question. And even for expert, I have bring stuff to the table were they did not hear about and they then searched for it and came back to me. With good heads, you can exchange in any domains. Some people learn very fast. Some people are about to apply their experience in other domains to another one (like health/medicine).

        I have also saw doctors somewhat denying stuff I said, without being surprised thought (because I know that it was common belief even among docs that it does not work, because it was the case “before”, but technology have changed, and my source were doctors practicing with those technology). Some people, patient and doctors, need to be a bit open mind and wise when communicating.

    • Bobby

      I have found the opposite. I have an amazing Dr. He explains things he recommends and allows ME to decide. He also listens to concerns. He actually asks me when I take my children in what I think is wrong before he takes a look. When my eldest sons were 3yrs and 18 months old I took them in with different ailments. He asked me so mum what do you think is wrong? I said I think this one might have an ear infection and this one has spiked a fever with his cough so I think it might be a chest infection. He checked and laughed at me and asked why I needed him? I was correct. I stated I needed him because although I know my kids I am not a Dr and even my best guess could be wrong. By having a good relationship with my Dr it allows him to know I am ONLY going to bring my children in if I have good reason to believe there is infection or something else I can’t take care of. This means he doesn’t have to worry about giving antibiotics for a virus (you can’t KILL a virus with antibiotics as a virus isn’t technically alive to begin with) instead of a bacterial infection. He knows he can ask questions and I have been attentive enough to have logical, factual and observant answers. I also know that if I don’t understand something he is more than happy to explain it to me. Parents need to know when and why to take their children to a Dr and that needs to be an informed decision. Having good Dr Patient relationships aids this process. Oh and for goodness sake do NOT ask google lol

    • Siri Dennis

      I’m so sorry. If it’s any comfort, I think you are both hopless AND overbaring. Hugs.

    • Laura

      ‘if we try to understand and be informed we are “infuriating, stupid and overbaring” ‘
      I’ve gotten some of that attitude, and unfairly.
      But that’s life you know. People WILL be unfair to you sometimes. Even doctors. Are not perfect.

      Which says nothing against the satire above.

    • Michael Muryn

      So everyone is too busy, then end up doing errors (communication, choices, etc.) and then end up taking more time to fix all problems. Make sense. 😉

      Bobby explained it very well, except for the not googling it. 😉 There is a lot of good information on the Internet (lot of the health information written by health professional, including doctors, and some of them contradict each others, what you do? Doctors cannot be wrong, so how can they contradict themself? :-D). That is like people ridiculizing Wikipedia as a source of info, it is a ridiculous and popular tendency.

      Take this with a grain of salt (and laugh at me with the “he reads it on the internet” ;-)…), but I remember seeing studies that went along these lines (I admit we would have to do some search to find back those source, but stay open mind):
      – Wikipedia being more accurate than traditional encyclopedia, etc.
      – Google being better than doctors at identifying problems from symptom you would input (let’s be open minded here and suppose it is possible, what if? It may be a satire like here… There is also stats about doctor errors and like the copy/paste master reported here, they don’t look super good and there is doctors denouncing these too).

  • แครี ดัน

    Awesome Idea ! All the anti-vaccer morons will die off, hopefully before realizing just how stupid they are. Meanwhile the intelligent people will still be getting treated by trained professionals who, with shorter lines and smarter patients, will be able to deliver even better care than they do now ! Everybody wins !

    • annoying miss

      they will kill the anti vaccer’s off,, like ,, 11 doctors anti vaccers are either murdered or missing,, your post proves that control is more important than research, what every your name is,

      • Ruth Primmer

        Annoying, an anti-vaccer AND racist. That’s the trifecta right there.

        • annoying miss

          i’m not an anti-vaccer,, nor a racist,,,lie much

          • Ruth Primmer

            So why did none of your other comments make mention of people’s names? Because they were written in a script you could read. Yet you felt the need to point out that you couldn’t read this person’s name.

            Yep, racist right there.

          • annoying miss

            i was going to include his name in my post,, but i could not read it,,,

          • Luba Petrusha

            You could have copied and pasted, just like most of your comments….

  • Sammy Mundy

    This is a lie! Anyone who has done their research would never set foot in the corrupt, big pharma funded, organ stealing from live patient, cancer causing… Hospital! Nope! Lies I tell you!

    • MisterLiteral

      Can’t tell if poster actually believes this… or if it’s a well crafted sarcastic comment making fun of conspiracy theorists.

      • Sammy Mundy

        Well crafted sarcasm ?

        • MisterLiteral

          Nicely done.

    • Laura

      Nosocomial infection-causing, hive of disease, breeding antibiotic-resistant germs, toilet aerosol coated hospital?

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  • Janet Mikulski Messcher

    Thank you for the chuckle

  • Spamihazit

    Oh it is only a matter of time before Big Pharma sends their Shill checks to the crunchy internet researchers. Then, WE can point our fingers at THEM, shriek things like “SHILL!” and “TROLL!” and don our tinfoil hats as we drink our gluten-free, organic, GMO-free water.

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  • megselv

    Oh noes! Patients and parents need to shut up immediately and stop imagining they know anyting about their bodies!
    Don’t they know that doctors are magicians who know Everyting?

    • Laura

      Where does this satire imply that doctors are magicians who know everything?

      • Rex

        It’s very existence implies that.

        • Laura

          How? That’s not how I interpret it.

    • Finn

      Patients are a great source of information about their symptoms, but all this article is saying is that they can’t single-handedly manage their entire care. Unfortunately, they lack the training to reliably make diagnoses. Even when they look up their symptoms, they don’t always know enough to know what they should be looking for. I’ll give you an example.
      Say you have a cough, fever, and productive sputum. Simple enough google, right? First hit: bronchitis.
      But wait… the actual differential includes bronchitis, typical and atypical pneumonia (subdivided into gram positive, gram negative, aspiration, post-obstructive, viral, AND by specific organism), COPD, asthma, bronchiolitis, pneumoconioses (asbestosis, berylliosis, syllicosis, etc.), fungal infections (subdivided into candidiasis, histoplasmosis, blastomycosis, etc.), TB, helminth infections (ascaria, strongyloides, etc.), HIV, malignancy (subdivided into small cell, squamous cell, bronchogenic, carcinoid, etc.), and so on…

      So, not only do you have to figure out what caused the symptoms, you have to know what tests to send (which can cost upwards of hundreds of dollars each). And even if you get the right diagnosis, they don’t always know how to go about finding the best treatment. Say you know it’s pneumonia. Do you use antibiotics or antivirals? Which bacteria commonly cause your type of pneumonia? What classes of antibiotics are there? Which one works well for this bacteria? How much should you take, how often, for how long? Etc.

      Patients need doctors to know which tests to run just as doctors need patients to describe their symptoms so they have a place to start. It’s really a symbiotic relationship. The internet, unfortunately, isn’t always the best place to cut out the middle-man.

      • annoying miss

        patients have more time to figure out what may be wrong,, they just need doctors with patience,

  • Angryhealthydad

    Whew, heaven forbid anyone go against what their doctor says. Cuz ya know, they make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and work in over the top extravagant hospitals (in some cases) because of all of the HEALTHY people. Wait….good health doesn’t make these people any money, so I guess we should just all continue to blindly follow these multi-billion dollar industries without doing any research on our own because money is always right!

    I understand that this is a satire article, but the fact that it makes fun of people who like to be informed instead of being another drone in the machine is ridiculous, as are most of the offensive comments. Next time you think about being rude, ask yourself if anyone you love or care about follows the path you are about to bash. We are all entitled to our own opinions, you should be able to argue for your side without attempting to discredit the other.

    • Finn

      The thing you’re overlooking is that doctors and hospitals don’t care where the money comes from. They’re not particularly after YOUR money. So there’s no conspiracy to make you more sick, as you seem to be implying. Even if every medical condition you have gets cured this second, there are 10 people waiting to take your place in the hospital. The actual interest of the hospital is to get you patched up quickly and free up the bed for someone else.

      • annoying miss

        dept driven doctors stay up for 38 hours in ER gets crabby with young
        mommy over sick child from vaccine,,,Get Some Much Needed Sleep, force
        veggies on children,, not drugs,

    • Laura

      I keep myself informed and I’ve had to take an activist role in my health care, but I don’t feel like this article is making fun of me. I have lots of respect for doctors and their training and knowledge and I don’t feel I can replace them, that’s why.
      Where in this article does it say or imply that doctors are gods or patients shouldn’t educate themselves?

    • Ashley

      People who go against the doctors are usually the ones to be hospitalized. You don’t comply with recommendations and then end sick and blame your healthcare provider. I see it everyday. The truth is that you do have the right to research things and make informed choices, but if you don’t know where to get valuable information from and your telling the doctor they’re wrong because of something you read on the internet. Then you may not be making the best choice. People are no longer vaccinating their children and now there are rises in illnesses that were actually becoming rare. Polio use to cripple and kill children everyday and now it no longer exists in the US, but if we stop vaccinating then it will come back as it has not been eradicate from the entire world. So again we don’t criticize the smart individuals who get second opinions or use studies to research. We criticize those who read mommy blogs and think they know something a doctor doesn’t because Sally down the street uses some home remedy that cures everything and is not harmful to your body like the drugs doctors prescribe. There is no conspiracy theory here doctors are not in cahoots with drug manufacturers we hate them as much as you do. Technology and innovation cost money that is why healthcare is costly not because doctors are paid insane amounts of money. They are compensated well yes but why else would anyone go to school for such a long time and get so much debt if there was no money in it. Also I assure you that there will always be a need for healthcare we do not need to make people sick to stay in business the world does that all on it’s own.

      • annoying miss

        polio was stopped before the vaccine came out, do you research,

        • Laura

          What is your evidence for that claim?

          • MisterLiteral

            She has no evidence… other than the fact that she read it somewhere on the internet.

            If it’s on the internet, it has to be true!

          • Michael Muryn

            Interesting, but no matter what, no matter how people judge or ridiculize X or Y, there is a truth. So what is the truth?

      • annoying miss

        dept driven doctors stay up for 38 hours in ER gets crabby with young mommy over sick child from vaccine,,,Get Some Much Needed Sleep, force veggies on children,, not drugs, my car was not made to run on candy but petrol,, what it’s designed to run on

    • annoying miss

      yes,, indeedy,, 2nd opinion is affordable on the internet,, or go to books that doctors wrote, before they make that illegal

  • Dani

    I’m not sure if these comments are satire as well or not, but if they’re not then there seem to be a lot of people in this world who think a couple of hours of googling in some way qualifies them to an opinion different from that of a doctor who studied the subject for at least 7-8 years before they started practicing, and has continued to study and learn from experience ever since. The arrogance on these people is just mind blowing.

    • annoying miss

      the arrogance that only doctors can read a book, sorry doctors,, that you have to be on call
      in the ER for 38 hours straight,, like that really makes you guys
      accurate,, no wonder you kill a half a million each year,, more than
      murders and cancer and heart attacks,, but you have the Gov on your
      side,, free medicine? yes, free train rides and free showers too, 1940
      Germ man eat man

      • Christine Loewen

        Well, if nothing else, we’ve learned that you are able to copy and paste, annoying miss!

        • annoying miss

          very important,, Thank God for copy and paste,, don’t forget,, doctors in ER should have 4 hour shifts,, not 38

          • Michael Muryn

            Some doctors are also very good person who want to help… and like a lot of these… they take some responsibility and have an hard time saying “NO”. Unless they are physically/mentally able to stay efficient after such shift (I believe some people still can, but I would question if it is healthy, especially if it is too much recurring… else I can attest that you can work long hour and stay productive, but we lose a lot of people overtime).

            Therefore, some of them need to stand up and put their foot to the ground and say “NO”. I suppose at the same time, some other have responsibility and not much backup. It is not always an easy decision to take. There will be people complaining no matter what said doctors do.

      • Luba Petrusha

        Who works 38 hour shifts any more? ER doctors generally work 8 to 12 hour shifts nowadays; time in the ER is stressful, but the hours are usually pretty good, and when you’re off you’re off.

        Residents may have longer shifts, but their hours are severely restricted by hour laws passed in the last decade. Starting in 2003, with revisions in 2011, regulations from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education capped the work-week at 80 hours. Shifts are capped (with limited exceptions) at a maximum of 16 consecutive hours for a first year resident and 24 in the second and third years.

        And residents are under the supervision of ER staff physicians; they do not run hte show or make final decisions.

    • Michael Muryn

      Some people may try to get informed. Then they will challenge constructively if they hear different things from two different sources. Worst… hear two different things from two different doctors. What you do when that happen? 😉

      Just as in any problem solving domain, I see lot of people conclude too fast on hypothesis (doctors and patients are not immune to this fallacious behavior). Emit an hypothesis and work toward verifying it (even prescribing meds and then verify, else adjust or go to another hypothesis); that is fine. But conclude like it was the absolute truth, then when it does not work, repeat and act like your next solution is again the absolute incontestable truth… that is dangerous.

      I saw a tendency for some doctors to be a bit condescending with some patient and do error. And I saw some patient insist until they are proved right. Some other abandon because of their doctor behavior. That is sad. That is in health profession or any other problem solving profession (car mechanic, software development, house renovation, detective, etc.).

      The key is to do good communication.

      On the other hand, if I place myself in the shoes of docs who see a lot of patient and among them a lot of them who are “wasting their time”. As much nice as you want to be, with the workload you have, the temptation to be a bit more drastic in your way to do is big. Still you have to recognize when someone in front of you is able to talk and resonate logically, he might be your best ally.

      There is knowledge and there is also logic/intelligence. You may not be able to qualify as good as someone with years of experience studying, practicing etc. in general. But in a limited scope, about your own problem, etc. It is possible to learn a lot in a short time span, this with the help of your doctors and other sources. And then be able to ask good questions and work toward a solution.

      I mostly hate the philosophy of some doctors who are in favor of not giving all the information to their patients. Like they were dumb children (or adult) who are not able to understand anything. Or with the fear that it will scare them, etc. That is possible, but then, not everyone are like this and it is the health of the patient itself, why would you want to hide the numbers, facts, etc. from them? That is a stupid mindset some have. I don’t say it is the majority, but I have saw some fellow conclude that way. There are some place where patient can see all their “stats”, and some other place where they cannot. I think it is only logical and right that a patient has access to his health “stats”, tests, results, etc. It is his avatar after all. I think that is the kind of doctors people have a problem with, and while it is probably not the majority, these ones sure does not have the right behavior.

      You work with a patient to fix his problem. Some are obvious with an easy fix. Some have multiple solutions with their risks. Some you won’t be able to solve easily or will have to dig further. Work together, not against each others.

      • Laura

        I have been very badly let down by doctors, with truly disastrous consequences. And I agree that the “doctor knows best” attitude can be plain wrong, condescending and also sexist, in the case of women. Especially if the patient is intelligent and realizes the limits of their expertise.
        I have done my best to educate myself about my health problems. I have been active in my own treatment. Being a passive patient would be very bad for me.
        But I also try to realize the limits of my own knowledge. I don’t think that is too hard. I do realize that any doctor, even the worst, has a lot of training and knowledge that I don’t have. And I defer to their expertise when that seems appropriate.

    • Mark Wynn

      It’s tongue in cheek sarcasm, Dani. Some here don’t seem to get that and are instead grinding their axes.

  • Mskdoc

    Haha “I have a family member who is a nurse” is such a classic line I hear. I never know why people feel compelled to tell me that.

    • Michael Muryn

      Simple, they try to give credibility to the source of their information (assuming they say it for this, else it may only to try to level up themself, like doing fallacious politic).

      If the person is wrong, OK. If the person is right, there is nothing wrong with the internet or having a family member or friend who is a nurse or another doctor. If I was a doctor, I would like my patient to be interested in their health instead of blindly believing anything (“doctors” are not exempt of error). Some people get all condescending if you are prepared and do your search, like it was a bad thing! Some other appreciate it and respect their patient and will work along with them an open way or simply fix their misunderstanding if any.

      I have saw doctors laugh at people for going do their search on net. I have saw doctor argue about things they were clearly wrong. Etc. I have also saw great and open minded doctors. Just like in any profession. Some are good too, but closed minded or full of prejudices.

      What you do if you go to a doctor and he find nothing wrong or has no solution, but you clearly have some symptoms that annoy you? 😉 You give up and live with it without even trying? 😉

  • Sarah Churvis

    “eric sheppard”
    i love you

  • Mitchell Silverman

    Lets not forget the nephew who is a second year medical student

  • mahoneykev05

    after reading all these comments, why would anyone EVER want to become a doctor. What a thankless job it must be. Everyone thinks doctors are somehow out to get them or have no time for them. These comments are truly saddening. While they set aside years of their lives to help others, or at the very least attempt to, people just get behind their computer screen and ridicule them.

    • annoying miss

      LOL,, i do research on internet and i save money,,I save money and my health,, sorry doctors,, that you have to be on call
      in the ER for 38 hours straight,, like that really makes you guys
      accurate,, no wonder you kill a half a million each year,, more than
      murders and cancer and heart attacks,, but you have the Gov on your
      side,, free medicine? yes, free train rides and free showers too, 1940
      Germ man eat man

      • Mark Wynn

        Well, thanks, mahoney and annoying miss … there goes the sarcasm neighborhood. There could be sites for the literal-oriented. Might google it.

  • annoying miss

    I save money and my health,, sorry doctors,, that you have to be on call in the ER for 38 hours straight,, like that really makes you guys accurate,, no wonder you kill a half a million each year,, more than murders and cancer and heart attacks,, but you have the Gov on your side,, free medicine? yes, free train rides and free showers too, 1940 Germ man eat man

    • Jamie Ioane

      unfortunately your user name says it all….Annoying. Instead of being a keyboard warrior maybe you should be gaining a little more insight into the health profession.

      • erinpatricia

        And proper use of punctuation.

  • annoying miss

    soon doctors will get rid of us and our internet,,,,,,,,,soon

  • annoying miss

    I’ve had some wonderful doctors,, and they inspired me to do my own research,, and good doctor will teach you to be a good doctor,,

  • Leah McRorie

    To all the doctors who said “she will never!”

  • Justin Asbury

    Wow – the number of names I could put next to this title is staggering

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  • Brent

    Research on the internet isn’t the same thing as an real education,ya see. That’s the point of the satirical article. Sheesh!

  • Patients Not Victims

    Amazingly patronizing and condescending article.
    Yet more proof of the arrogance of the medical profession – as if we needed it.
    You put your lab coat on and expect everyone to bow to your superior knowledge. Then you’re shocked when people figure out the truth: You have no F’ing clue what you’re doing.

    Both my parents suffered at the hands of you quacks. The drugs you people put my mother on were on were slowly killer her.
    After she passed we were shocked to find photos of a fit healthy 20 something in the attic, pictures taken before the antidepressants.
    My dad nursed her for 50 years, not knowing the medications were the cause of her problems.
    Those pompous frauds never once admitted their mistakes.
    This was before the internet, so we spent years searching the medical publications for help.

    Today I find myself in a not too dissimilar situation.
    My wife is in constant pain, and all the ‘doctors’ do is prescribe one useless drug after another.
    It’s been about 3 years now and we’re no nearer a resolution.
    So guess what? I’M LOOKING ON THE F***ING INTERNET.

    You conceited twats need to answer this question:
    What happens when you take your broken car in and the mechanic charges you $1450 for an oil change but does not fix the problem?
    Well?

    • Laura

      “My dad nursed her for 50 years, not knowing the medications were the cause of her problems.”
      Why do you believe that medications were the cause of her problems?

      “My wife is in constant pain, and all the ‘doctors’ do is prescribe one useless drug after another.”

      I’m sorry to hear that. What kind of pain, where is it?

      Chronic pain is difficult to treat from what I’ve heard.

    • Dr. Smart

      so your wife is a broken car? that metaphor really explains a lot.

      also yeah so shocking that a 20 year old healthy woman would look different after 50 years… oh wait

    • GotScience

      Idiots must be patronized, otherwise they do serious damage in their uncultured presumptuousness. Sorry, but it is better to have a physician make a decision than someone who’s looked it up on the net.

    • Saoirse

      feel free not to bother those arrogant quacks with any of your or your wife’s health issues. that way you won’t have to pay a bill and they have no f’ing clue what they’re doing anyways.
      I’m sure any doctor will be delighted to not having to put up with your crap.
      it’s a win win sutation! cheers!

  • john gilmour

    To the man Who’s wife is in pain! If she is on Statin Medication for cholesterol, that is most likely the culprit!
    ask her doctor to cut her statin meds in half, for one month, take her off of all pain medication to be able to monitor changes!
    A friend of patients, that knows the limits of doctors. doctors don’t seem to do any research, once they leave medical school!

  • john gilmour

    to learn more about your personal medication, place it in a search engine thus “Zocor Class Action”

  • john gilmour

    I have been doing medical research for 20 years, (Just a Guy with Insatiable Curiosity) discovered that my oldest sister had a serious Mental Condition, that went undiagnosed for her lifetime? discovered that a Drug company discovered a cure for Cholesterol related Cardiovascular issues, created a liquid Synthetic Copy of a Protien, that makes all Cholesterol Slippery, and the drug company, never put it on the market, but sold the formula, in 2012, to a medical investment company? Look up APO A-1 Milano

    • Jared

      That’s funny. I did look it up. On Wikipedia even, and I found this:

      “Cardigant Medical is a Los Angeles-based biotech company currently working to commercialize ApoA-1 Milano to treat various vascular diseases.”

      Seems your information may be outdated.

    • GotScience

      Perusing Wikipedia, Web Md, etc does not constitute research, sorry.

  • Mick

    Based on what im reading in the comments, I should’ve done the same thing my neurosurgeon and ecologist did with a hacksaw and microwave!

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  • GotScience

    Most parents know more than doctors anyway. This statement says it all. The cretins are taking over. Idiot America is the best weapon for the right to control the populace to benefit the rich, corporations, stockholders and renters.

    • Chris

      … and renters?

      So my two younger kids who pay way too much of their salaries to rent apartments are benefiting? Who knew?

      • GotScience

        Renter: One who owns or controls property and rents that property to another. Also spelled rentier.

        • Chris

          It is used both ways:
          http://www.thefreedictionary.com/renter

          Perhaps you should now look up the definition of “Dunning Kruger.”

          • GotScience

            Of course, it is used both ways, which you failed to realize, and jumped up. So, brother, peace to you and your lightning sharp knee reflexes. Dunning Kruger: a quality of narcissism. The Donald, Ben Carson, most preachers, etc.

    • Chris

      “and renters.”

      Explain. You used that phrase twice on this blog in the span of a few minutes. One of my kids pays a third of his very adult sized salary to rent a studio apartment (granted, it is in the hipster part of town), another kid pays over half of her minimum wage retail clerk pay to live have a room in a townhouse with two other housemates. How exactly are they benefiting? What control do they have?

      Are you a mortgage broker or real estate agent trying to drum up business? If you are, then you are doing it quite badly.

      Also, have you read the subtitle under the main title of this site which is on both top and bottom of the page? What is the last word of the subtitle?

      • GotScience

        Renter: One who owns or controls property and rents that property to another. Also spelled rentier. Before insulting folks, check your lexical resources. This makes my point about entrusting decisions to knowledgeable folks rather than to one’s presumed understanding.

        • Chris

          In our area the one owns the property and rents it out is a landlord, the other is either a renter or tenant. Perhaps you should have rechecked a dictionary, to make sure to consider both common uses of the word:
          http://www.thefreedictionary.com/renter

          It would make you look a little less like a ranty fool.

          • GotScience

            Chris. Thefreedictionary, while useful to begin a search is quite incomplete; further, renters is an economic definition. Relax my presumptuous friend.

    • Mark Wynn

      Interesting … as the young mothers I know (including a daughter) who are against vaccinating their children would all self-describe as liberal Democrats. — Which drives her mother, Nurse Carol, up the wall (both for the failure to vaccinate the grandchildren, and the gullibility to be taken-in by liberal propaganda.)

      • Chris

        Anti-vax covers the full political spectrum. Often it is wrapped up in “FREEDOM!”, etc. Here is one example:
        http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/09/14/michelle-bachmanns-anti-vaccine-statement/

        • Mark Wynn

          Yeah … mainly the age group that swooned over Obama. … and Obama himself. Here is one example: http://www.science20.com/science_20/blog/what_do_barack_obama_john_mccain_and_tom_cruise_have_common_scientific_illiteracy

          • Chris

            Whoa! I had no idea that Michelle Bachmann swooned over Obana (I guess you did not click on the link). Nor that the Schlafy folks, David Ayoub, Neal Zimmer, Gary Goldman, The Canary Party, Leanard Horowitz, Rima Laibow, Barbara Loe Fisher, Meryl Dorey, Judy Wilyman, Russell Blaylock, Christopher Shaw, Barty Classen, Raymond Obomsawin, Joe Mercola, Mike Adams, etc all swooned over Obama! Who knew?

          • Mark Wynn

            There probably are a lot of things you don’t know. Either expand your sources of information or get used to it. You may start by reading the Science 20 article.

          • Chris

            You mean the article you linked to that also included John McCain, a conservative as another example of science illiteracy? You’re hilarious! Anyone who thinks science literacy is biased to any one political position deserves to be mocked.

          • Mark Wynn

            You led out with the partisan link, Chris. You remember, Bachmann et al? Hence, my link to show that “Anyone who thinks science literacy is biased to any one political position deserves to be mocked.” Who are we kidding, here?

          • Chris

            Announcer: Do you have Obamaitis? Signs of Obamaitis include reacting to news that there are people who dislike vaccines by saying “Obama!.” There is also reacting to news that there is a crime by yelling “Its Obama’s fault!” Do you believe only certain news sources that use the word “Obama” quite often are valid?

            Is there are cure for Obamaitis? Unfortunately no. But it is self-limiting and will end on January 20th of 2016.

          • Mark Wynn

            If only the damage done over the past seven years could be fixed so abruptly ….

          • Chris

            Those who use argument from a meme should be mocked. Especially when they ignore creators of other issues.

            You are a parody of a certain mindset.

          • Mark Wynn

            Bye Chris … have a nice day

      • GotScience

        Vaccines are necessary = liberal propaganda. What?

        • Mark Wynn

          Sorry, Got … I failed to clarify they are two separate issues at our house. I was referring to the clever by half, illogical, dishonest memes and factoids generated by Democrat/liberal/progressive/socialist Facebook sites. Young people today believe they are more intelligent and sophisticated that previous generations. They are not. In fact, they are the group that most anti-vaxers come from. Might Google it.

  • Mark Wynn

    This sarcastic, tongue in cheek article, which means exactly the opposite of what it reports … has spawned pages of literal folk defending their personal agendas. I find it fascinating … some communication grad student should do a paper ….

  • Sandy Wong

    hahahahaha

  • Mike Hales

    If the Turnbull government gets wind of it, they might implement it Australia-wide.

  • Mark Waugh

    If there weren’t so many ignorant, arrogant and inept doctors then patients wouldn’t feel the need to protect themselves so often by researching on their own.

    • Derek Mccue

      You have no sense of irony

    • Jen

      Turn in your Medicare card then, and you can be on your way, mate!

      • Mark Waugh

        ???

        • Chris

          The article specified Australia, the Medicare card is what you present to get your free medical care from their national health service.

          She is telling you if you want to pay for just the services of naturopaths, chiropractors, acupuncturists and other non-reality based “health care providers”, then toss the card that entitles you to the free health care paid by the Australian taxpayers.

          Did you not understand that Sydney, Australia is not part of the USA (which has the most idiotic health insurance system on this planet)?

    • Peter Bartley

      There just is not a whole lot of doctors that meet your comments. Medical care in this country us first class.

      • Salty Nuts

        Sure it is, for those in First Class.

    • OranaMR

      Goodness – if you really feel that way please contact AHPRA and refer all these doctors on to them so that your grievances can be investigated. If you are correct, the individual doctors can either be sanctioned or re-educated in the areas that they are deficient in. Stand by your comments and do something to actually improve the system rather than just sniping here. There is also a Medical Ombudsman in each state with whom you can discuss whatever events have made you so embittered.

    • Chris

      Or you can move to the USA, where you have the option of choosing any insurance you want… or at tax time paying the penalty for not going through the trouble to pay for insurance.

      Then go to some kind of licensed or unlicensed naturopath (depending on the state) and get subpar treatment. If there is anything that is great about the good ol’ USA… you have the freedom to choose your own stupid stuff! Even if it kills you.

      • hanny

        My close friend a medical doctor had 3 open heart surgeries with diabetic now is playing golf… of course by God will all the success. Thank you for the compliment it was done at Keck USC hospital just fyi. 🙂

    • Deevo

      Ever heard of getting a second opinion? Or is it the case that most doctors disagree with your “research”?

  • The picture looks like it comes out of a 1950s Home Life Magazine. And having Meryl Dorey give it all the thumbs up is just what is needed.

    Sob, cry to Medicare and hospital funding. 🙂 It is happening here in the UK as well.

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  • Anne-Margrethe Rønning

    Reading this really gives me the feeling that doctors in general have come a long way. Some years ago some of them became really impertnent and annoyed if their pasients started investigating and interferring into his/her own illness. And worst of all, if they even suggested or came up with their own diagnosis. On the other hand one must take for granted that in these cases where ordinary people are left with the resonsibility to take care of the ill. after just a course, we are not talking about acute, serious disesases?

  • Paolo Pignatelli

    Asked about his lack of board certification after a particularly complicated surgery, a proud parent replied, “But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!”

  • Cindy

    Wow, scary. A little bit of knowledge by lay people can be dangerous!

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  • Just imagine how affordable this will be for working families! Instead of paying hundreds of dollars for Big Pharma’s mind control sterilization pill disguised as medicine, you need only open the faucet. Hot and cold running cures!

    • Seriously

      And you can enormously boost its power. You just have to sprinkle some sugar cubes and you get the cure for diabetes! … ?… Ops! 😛

    • Ieva Zagante

      Yes, but what about cases when parents have done research on different websites? Or there are other relatives who wabt to get involved? Who will decide which way is the best then?

      • Shadeburst

        That’s why hospitals have more than one ward.

      • Those phony baloney so-called “medical doctors” disagree sometimes, so this is nothing new. The choice belongs to the patient.

    • Graeme Condely

      ken s this is satire laughing at fools like you … fools who know more than doctors ..ken tell us would you let a garbage man work on your new car ?? or a butcher build you a house ?? OF COURSE NOT BUT YOU TRUST A PARENT WITH THE LIFE OF A CHILD

      • …I was joking along with the article…

        • Josh

          I would’ve thought your satire was obvious. It’s funny how some pathetic people like Graeme prey on peoples mistakes and yet make those very same mistakes.

      • ELLIS

        poe…shot from the saddle

      • Josh

        I can’t help but laugh at your unintentionally ironic comment. And I do mean “laugh at” not with.

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  • Alison Atkinson

    I love the arrogance of Doctors. You want the option to screw up monumentally and not be sued. You want us patients to take responsibility for our health. You want us to wait in your waiting rooms for sometimes up to an hour and for us to accept it. You want to over charge, over service or under service as you see fit. You want us to keep coming back over and over because you didn’t take the time to solve the actual problem in the first place. Then after all that you mock intelligent people who do their own research, ask for a second opinion or to see a specialist who don’t trust the 20 second diagnosis you’ve based on bias, prejudices, assumptions and big pharma marketing brochures. It might surprise you to know that alot of what you do is not rocket science. AND a lay person with a bit of extra knowledge based on experience and their own research who cares deeply is far better than a qualified doctor who doesn’t! Take responsibility for your part in this problem.

    • Jennifer L Smith-Clark

      Then you won’t need a doctor the next time you need surgery you can just look it up on the internet and do it yourself. Good luck

      • Mandy Cooper

        Looks like we can do away with Universities too then. All you have to do to learn is to Google! Hell let’s just shut schools altogether. Who needs teachers anyway!

        • Alison Atkinson

          Stupid comment. Doctors are not the only ones who go to University. Besides teachers are facilitators of learning anyway aren’t they?

          • Allie22

            well, seems reasonable. all those parents who are on the internet doing their medical research should be more than qualified to thoroughly educate their own offspring using all that side knowledge they gleaned from wikipedia

          • Alison Atkinson

            Because they’re parents they must be stupid right? They don’t have the capacity to read and understand science because they’re not Doctors or school teachers right? Oh please!

          • Mandy Cooper

            Their!

          • Mandy Cooper

            No they aren’t the only professionals to go to Uni, so why are you singling them out?

          • Alison Atkinson

            Did you read the original piece? Hospitals to replace Doctors with parents who have done their research? PS it’s not their it’s they’re as in they are shortened to they’re!

          • Luke

            You’re a moron of the highest order. This isn’t a real story. It’s a satire piece designed to mock people like you who think they can know just as much as doctor who has trained for six years just because you have access to Google and possess an automatic distrust of anyone in a white coat.

            Many doctors are ALSO parents, did that occur to you? The difference between them and you is that they are parents with medical qualifications, and you’re a tin-foiled twunt who can’t distinguish between satire and actual news.

          • Alison Atkinson

            I know that. It’s the sentiment that underpins it I find offensive. You wouldn’t happen to be one of those Prada wearing, Audi driving, sitting at the right hand of the Father typ Doctors I am referring to would you? Arrogant in the extreme.

          • Luke

            I’m not sure which doctors you’ve encountered but all the ones I’ve met have not only known more than me, you and every other nutjob who reckons they know best “just because”, but they’ve also been some of the hardest working and dedicated professionals I’ve ever met. Knowing that they know more than you (and trust me, they do) is not the same as having an ego. The fact that it seems to make you feel a little insecure is entirely your problem.

            And no, I’m not a doctor. Nor am I particularly arrogant. I just find it utterly astonishing that here we are in the 21st century with access to some of the best healthcare in the world, and people like you are still relying on the internet and hearsay. It’s utterly bizarre and absolutely reeks of YOUR arrogance when you assume that your “research” could ever usurp that of someone who has dedicated their life to medicine.

          • Alison Atkinson

            Married a Doctor then did we?

            Did you not read what I posted. I was very clear that any reading I do (including the information inside my prescription medicines) is purely to be better informed about my own health.

            I would hope after 6 years or more of study that a Doctor would know more than me about medicine but they don’t know everything and they certainly don’t know everything about me. If they did, they wouldn’t need to ask me any questions would they?

            Just because I don’t naively trust anyone with a white coat doesn’t mean I don’t trust anyone.

            Having worked for a time with the AMA. If you had heard of some of the medico legal cases I did,.you’d think twice about it too.

          • Shadeburst

            Doctor to Alison: “Dear Alison, I think we caught your ingrown toenail just in time but I’ll need to see you once a week for three months to make sure that gangrene has not developed. Does your medical plan cover a precautionary leg amputation? I also see that you look a little unhappy, is that right? so while you’re here let’s talk about a course of anti-depressants.”

          • Josh

            To be fair until the beginning of the 21st century very few people relied on the internet for medical advice.

          • Alison Atkinson

            Big deal btw. 6 years to develop an ego that makes you believe you’re above everyone. Sorry but I forgot to drink that coolade.

          • Mark Stutzman

            Kool-Aid*

          • Alison Atkinson

            👏 👏👏👏👏👏 bravo!

          • aaron

            This was so enjoyable.

          • Scottie McCaslin

            Another parent with unwarranted self importance… Giving birth doesn’t make you in expert in every field. It doesn’t even make you an expert in giving birth, that would be the Obstetrician.

          • Alison Atkinson

            Was that an Obstetrician with a womb or one without?

            There are many ways of knowing and many perspectives from which to understand something.

            I am not presuming to know all that my Doctors do just enough about the issues to ensure my loved ones are as safe as they can be in any hands and that I do all that is within my power as a parent to help them. If you are a parent and you want to wing it I guess that’s your choice.

            Anyway I’m done. I’ve got book calling me away from this pointless discussion.

      • Alison Atkinson

        Shouldn’t it be about Doctors and Patients working together? Doctors have no right to treat patients with contempt. I have been fortunate to have had some really great Doctors but they’re the ones who haven’t sold out for another trip to Paris.

        • Chris

          “Doctors have no right to treat patients with contempt.”

          Yet, you seem to feel free to treat those who have difficult medical issues with contempt. Obviously the fact that my son has both genetic cardiac and neurological issues makes you feel that you can degrade us for our use of medical help.

          Pro tip: do not judge those who have genetic conditions.

          Do not tell a person with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy s their “lifestyle” that caused the heart muscle tissue to become disorganized. (seriously, it is very common… look it up)

          Do not tell a person who has had seizures that they are an possessed by the devil (seriously, that is what actually happens)

          Do not tell a mom of a non-verbal child that he is an idiot (yep. actually happened)

          Do not tell someone with autism they are damaged (sorry, sweetie, my son was born that way… he is not dumb even though his speech is disordered, you just need to be patient… spend time and actually listen, because he can be quite profound)

          Actually, no medical professional has treated us with contempt. The only one I see treating anyone with contempt is Ms. Alison Atkinson. Perhaps you should stop projecting, and actually try to understand why this website exists.

          (Which is to laugh at pretentious fools like Ms. Alison Atkinson. Hmm, that is a relief. Hey, were you the mom from the mom/toddler group who phoned me and told me to stop talking about my son’s hospitalizations and medical appointments when he was a toddler just because the mothers of “normal” kids were tired of hearing about a kid who was not “normal”? Well, I have a few select words for you!)

          • Alison Atkinson

            Actually Chris FYI my son has non verbal learning disorder. I spent years being treated extremly badly by both Doctors and teachers because of this. When my son was 1.5 he also became extremely ill after having contracted Golden Staph in his head following ear surgery. The Doctor I took him too was so worried about getting puss on her designer clothes that she couldn’t be bothered swabbing his ear to actually find out what the bacteria was. She prescribed the wrong medication which made him even sicker so much so that his ears began pouring with blood and he was in agony. Both my kids experienced many serious illnesses and conditions. If I was not an educated and informed parent that insisted on proper treatment they may not have been here.That is why I don’t trust them. As I said if you blindly rely on the word of Doctors you may well regret it. Of course we need Doctors but what we really need is committed, good Doctors not rude, arrogant ones who are only in it for the money.

          • Veena J

            out of curiously… If you distrust doctors so much, why even go to them at all? If your appendix ruptures, I bet you can just google a video of an appendectomy… And anesthesia!

            Honestly, patients like you prevent doctors from doing their best… Doctors complete 4 years of medical school AFTER undergrad… Then they complete a MINIMUM of 3 YEARS in residency where they work 80-100 weeks and make ~$50k/year. After they have sacrificed their 20s, sometimes 30s, along with retirement savings, happy hours, holidays with family, their children’s milestones, etc… They take rigorous standardized exams that grant them a medical license and board certification. Keep in mind, this is the bare MINIMUM. Many go on to further specialize– interventional cardiologists? After undergrad:4 years of med school+ 3 years of internal medicine+ 3 years of cardiology+ 1-2 years of interventional training= 11-12 years JUST training for medicine. Pediatric Neurosurgeons? 4 years med school+ 7 years of residency (no that is not a typo) + 1-2 year fellowship= 12-13 years JUST in medicine.

            The list goes on. I haven’t even mentioned the $250,000 of medical school debt on average!!! And you know what? After training, when they are finally being appropriately compensated for their expertise, they have to continue to fight for reimbursements from insurance companies. And you know what Alison? Medical malpractice costs THOUSANDS a year bc people like you want to sue a physician when they don’t get an outcome they want. LEGAL CASES are a big cause of the cost of healthcare.

            You know what else? After training, when they are in the hospital on Christmas Day and their families are moving their celebrations around so that their doctor family member can be at the hospital in case YOU or YOUR family has an emergency and you come in acting like you know better, you know what? They will STILL treat you. And give you the best care they possibly can– even if you think they are dumber than you. They took a Hippocrates oath and will treat you the same as any other patient… Once they’ve done their best and their shift is over, then they will go home to their families, even if it’s Dec 26 or 27 and celebrate their Christmas.

            So, disparage and demean doctors all you want because you think your google research is somehow superior, but you know what? You can thank your lucky stars that in the decade or so of training to be a doctor, your doctor will have also taken an oath to first do no harm– and that oath will include treating you and your loved ones as best as they can despite being attacked by you.

          • Alison Atkinson

            Oh cry me a river! We all make our career choices.

          • Veena J

            #typical

            No one will cry you a river… But if you need an emergency life saving procedure, see your doctor. Or google it. Either way. 😝

          • I think you forgot to drop the mic. 😉

          • Veena J

            😂😂

          • Clifford Browning

            Yep, 12-13 years must be what it takes to have a contracted lab draw a patients blood, take it to a lab and then regurgitate the results they have on the paper just to say, you’re blood work is fine so you must be, even though its only a basic panel test. Then if you are lucky your doctor will try to push some antidepressants your way. I guess that is their empathy for knowing they didn’t schedule time to listen to the patient but took their money anyway

          • Chris

            “I guess that is their empathy for knowing they didn’t schedule time to listen to the patient but took their money anyway.”

            In Australia? By the way tertiary care is defined here:
            http://healthissuescentre.org.au/consumers/health-care-in-australia/understanding-our-health-care-system

            Why am I telling you this? Well, go read the first sentence of the above article.

          • Clifford Browning

            sorry, little off topic I suppose. I am in the United States

          • Chris

            All the more reason why I told you to read the first sentence in the above article, and provided you the link. Yes, there are places outside the the USA and many of them do well with national health insurance.

          • Clifford Browning

            I politely acknowledged and apologized. I had already read that before you pointed it out and before posting. That doesn’t much change my post. Doctors arn’t totally different because you live in Australia. I don’t have to be a kiwi to understand that.

          • Josh

            But our medicare system is awful and doctors in this country are quite commonly under-trained and sourced from developing countries.

            Our (Australian) healthcare system is no shining example for the rest of the world. And ever since the inception of medicare both sides of our government have done their best to discredit public healthcare and push a private healthcare system that would be even more negligent than our current broken system.

          • Josh

            I agree with most of what you said except that medical malpractice cases are a big cause of the cost of healthcare. This simply isn’t true. The cost of healthcare is almost entirely dependant on the country you reside because of whether adequate funding is provided from the amount of taxes collected.

            The reality is that countries with high healthcare costs generally have heavily corrupted governments that redirect too much of the countries collected taxes to unnecessary sources/parties.

          • Chris

            And yet you are smarter than the doctors.

          • Graeme Condely

            GO ON GOOGLE get medical advice from ???????? who knows . a doctor ?mrs brown at the shop saying she is a doctor???? HELL YOU WILL FIND THE EARTH IS FLAT AFTER ALL ON GOOGLE IF YOU SEARCH HARD ENOUGH

          • Chris

            ?

            Why the all caps comment to a snarky comment aimed at a “Brave Sir Robin” who deleted all of her comments?

          • ELLIS

            Your kid is lucky. You are a good mom. Keep fighting his battles…you are his CHAMPION

      • Alison Atkinson

        OmG! Here we go again. Another moron. It’s not even remotely what I was saying. If you want to be part of a discussion at least make the effort to inform yourself of the thread. Oh wait. That’s what I was saying wasn’t it? That people have a right and a responsibility to be informed about things that concern them including their health. Thankyou for proving my point that only idiots obsolve themselves of respinsibility to be educated. I rest my case!

        • Veena J

          You are unable to clearly articulate your point… Yet you think doctors are only chasing a “trip to Paris” instead of being intelligent, hardworking, and generally helpful individuals… #okthen 🤔🤔🤔

          • Josh

            Good point. Whether someone is a doctor has no bearing on whether they are intelligent, hardworking or generally helpful individuals. These traits are defined by the individual and not the individuals titles.

      • Josh

        This sounds like a good point but is actually very misleading considering even the most skilled surgeons can’t perform most surgeries on themselves. It’s not like it’s impossible to learn how to perform a specific surgery using information you found on the internet. You can but you’ll still need someone else to perform the surgery. (and obviously there are rare exceptions to the rule)

    • Patrick McLaughlin

      Believe me, the doctors would love to spend more time with their patients. Just as patients are unsatisfied with long waits and hasty visits, doctors practicing today are very unfulfilled and unsatisfied with the current system. Most physicians are employed these days by companies who place them on this production treadmill where they have to see patients in 15 min time slots regardless of what their concern is. There are not too many concerns a doctor can adress adequately in 15 min. So those physicians who do want to take the time to listen to their patients and try and accomplish as much as they can for them at a given visit are inevitably going to run further and further behind as the day goes along. Not to mention the doctor is rarely the person responible for the actual billing. Shure they chart a particular CPT or procedure code depending on how many things were addressed at a visit and how complicated they were, but how much a patient actually gets charged is enirely up to the clinic and/or the insurance company.

      • Alison Atkinson

        I agree with you Patrick for the most part. I have had some really great Doctors and feel very fortunate about that but I have also been treated poorly by the odd one here and there. You know who these arrogant gits are. I’m sure you meet them at conferences all the time.

        As a profession it’s up to the medicos to demand more of each other. Everyone has to make sacrifices for what we believe in. Doctors employed by the big companies are paid extremely well receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars to sign on for each contracting period plus an an annual income often in the multiple hundreds. It’s a choice pure and simple.

        If medicine is no longer rewarding in those environments, leave and go back set up a little private practice by the beach.

        • Chris

          Please tell me what other person than a cardiologist and a specialized cardiology surgeon I should have had my son see for his obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

          You obviously know more than the family doc and general cardiologist that referred us to the Mayo Clinic, since you are a parent who has done the research.

          So silly me for listening to them, especially after the four 911 calls to our house. Perhaps it was the trips to the emergency department and the young man spending time in a hospital that muddled my “parent research.”

          • Alison Atkinson

            Not once have I said Doctors are not qualified to provide medical advice. Nor did I say parents should be. You people don’t read.

            If you are a person relying 100% on a Doctor to solve your health problems then you are an idiot and there are not too many Doctors who will be able to help you with that.

          • Chris

            Then you should be more clear on expressing your message. Because your message is extremely muddled.

            “If you are a person relying 100% on a Doctor to solve your health problems then you are an idiot and there are not too many Doctors who will be able to help you with that.”

            Wow. That sounds exactly like the health insurance nurse who called after his open heart surgery to remove the extra heart muscle that was kind of blocking his aortic valve. She wanted to talk about “preventive methods.” I seriously wanted to ask her how we could have prevented the genetic sequences that caused the abnormal heart growth.

            She was calling us “idiots” because my son needed heart surgery, because we did not prevent the abnormal growth. Just like you are telling us we are “idiots” for actually getting real medical care.

            Do you even think about what you are saying? Which is basically telling us we were fools for calling 911, and actually getting a skilled surgeon to remove the extra heart tissue blocking the aortic valve. Wait… do you even know there is an aortic valve and what it does?

            Hey! You are so super smart… who was I supposed to call when he had a grand mal seizure when he was a toddler? Some guru? A homeopath? Perhaps you? Because you are so much smarter than a medical doctor. Do tell me.

            (Keep it up, I have a quarter century of medical history to go on… I would really love you to tell me how every neurologist, cardiologist, speech therapist, etc were so wrong when you are so so right… especially since it seems you have no clue about obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Really? You think it could be fixed by mommy science?. Honey, I am not the idiot here.)

          • Alison Atkinson

            Chris the problem is that you didn’t read the original piece I was commenting on and you have taken me out of context.
            I am a great believer in the value of science and medical science in particular. I took offence at the original article posted on this site that mocks parents and others for being proactive in managing theirs and their children’s health by reading and researching for themselves. The key is not to hand over power for your health or that of your children to someone who doesn’t love them as much as you do. Doctors are human. They make mistakes and sometimes (rare but true) they just don’t actually care as much as they should. Please go back to the original article posted here so you actually see what I was commenting on. I am not trying to make you (or anyone else struggling with health issues) for seeking medical help when they feel it’s needed. That would make no sense at all. I’m just saying we all have the right and even a responsibilty to educate and inform ourselves about our health.

          • Chris

            It is called satire. It is not aimed at parents like you, but the ones who depend on their “mommy science.” A more recent case is on trial in Alberta. A child died of HiB meningitis because the parents “knew” better.

          • Luke

            And if you’re relying even 1% on your own instinct and whatever you’ve typed into google for medical advice, then you’re an absolute lunatic.

            Of course you can’t always rely on just ONE doctor. Different doctors specialise in different fields, which is why most doctors will then refer you to a specialist IN that field. Between the entire medical profession and ten minutes on google, I know exactly where the smart money goes on that bet.

          • Alison Atkinson

            Why do you assume I don’t know the difference between a reliable source of information and one that isn’t. Your argument lacks logic. Are you seriously saying that you can’t diagnose yourself with a head cold or a bit of hayfever? There’s your 1% buddy.

          • Luke

            Because you’re not a doctor, you don’t have an insight into the history or motivation of websites on the internet and you’ve already shown you can’t differentiate between SATIRE and NEWS. So, forgive me for being somewhat sceptical.

            Obviously anyone can spot a cold. That’s not what I was talking about and you know it. I’m talking about things that require experience to diagnose, which you don’t want to trust a doctor to do.

          • Alison Atkinson

            I do trust my Doctor. I have found an awesome one. It’s just that you’re not all awesome and you know that!

            Doctors can’t on one hand complain that patients take no responsibility for their health and then mock them when they do. Noone in their right mind would do that INSTEAD of seeing a Doctor. It’s about being educated ENOUGH to think about what’s going on with your body. Knowing when to seek assistance. Stop being such a tosser.

          • Luke

            Stop saying you. It’s flattering that you’ve assumed I’m a doctor and you know that.

            Taking responsibility for your health means not taking liberties with your body, not eating like you’ll die tomorrow or not smoking like a chimney. It does NOT mean that you go and play Nancy Drew on the internet because you reckon you can diagnose that rash of yours. That’s entirely worthy of mockery, because it’s a stupid thing for an untrained person to do.

          • Alison Atkinson

            According to you who professes to know alot about health and Doctors for someone who isn’t one. Your opinion is no more valid than mine so how about you go and take your meds now and have a good lie down. This issue is obviouy causing you alot of anxiety 😅😅😅

          • Josh

            I agree that people need to take responsibility for their actions but more common than not health issues are genetic or inflicted by an external source unrelated to a persons choices in life.

            I have scoliosis and deal with constant back pain and it has nothing to do with the liberties I’ve taken in my life. I’ve seen a few doctors about my back. One doctor completely underplayed my issues, another assumed I wanted pain pills, another had me get an xray done and later informed me I have mild to moderate scoliosis induced by physical trauma. And that’s only 3 of the 6 doctors I’ve seen regarding my constant back/neck pains.

            I’m only 22 and I can’t go to sleep without getting pins and needles in the right side of my neck & head and losing all sense of my right arm and yet I’ve had a couple doctors tell me there is nothing wrong with me. Do you know what it’s like to be in constant pain every single day regardless of consuming morphine? Or to not remember what a good nights sleep is like? To genuinely seek help regarding these issues only to be met with rigid cynicism?

            I should note: out of desperation I was recently extracting morphine to relieve my pain and this was somewhat effective but I eventually became dependant and then quit after about 6 months. I am educated in pharmacology and far more than most doctors. It’s amazing the misconceptions some doctors have regarding pharmaceuticals..

          • Graeme Condely

            YES LUKE SO MANY DID NOT RECOGNISE SATIRE.. perhaps a diagnoses of fluid on the brain may be just a little beyond them

          • I’m not exactly on Alison’s side, but I’ve got to disagree with you on this one. It’s important for patients to be aware of possibilities, pay attention to their instincts, and be assertive about their concerns, including ones they read about. Doctors are trained as healers, but they aren’t experiencing my symptoms, they may not even be aware of possible causes, and they won’t get important information unless I tell them. Doctors need us to talk to them as well as to listen. If you leave the doctor’s office thinking about what you should have said or done, you’re cheating yourself and handicapping your doctor.

            People have died from being meek!

          • Veena J

            I don’t think I know a good doctor that doesn’t want to spend more than 15 min with a patient. They WANT to, but decreasing reimbursements for healthcare make it so so tough. 😥 This is why doctors are so often running late– not bc of the “golf course”… But because they just had to spend an extra 30 min on an alloyed 15 min appointment bc the patient before was being dx with cancer and had questions, or the person before them arrived 15 minutes late. It’s awful, but rest assured that it means they will give you plenty of time when you need it too. And will try to work WITH you to determine a solution.

            Also, any good doctor will encourage a concerned patient to seek a second opinion– it’s par for the course.

            And of course there are bad doctors– like there are bad teachers, cops, etc. But like you, I think most are well intentioned. 🙂

          • Graeme Condely

            GOOGLE YOUR SYMPTOMS I have wasted 30 minutes and come away convinced I have 6 terminal diseases you only find in Africa or perhaps THE BUBONIC PLAUGE..

          • I read a fun book by a comedian named Gene Weingarten called The Hypochondriac’s Guide to Life…and Death that describes lots of conditions like that. I’m not sure how to describe the tone of the book, but it’s somewhere in between a comedy book, a self-help book, and a book about health. He even reveals how he cured his own hypochondria!
            .
            .
            .
            .
            .
            .
            .
            .
            .
            He found out he had Hepatitis C!

          • Josh

            Clearly you don’t know how to query google properly. Maybe you should learn how to navigate the internet properly before making blanket statements about “googling your symptoms”.

            And having only 1 symptom of a disease is an incredibly poor indicator that you have that disease. As far as I know most adults are aware of this. So are you just a god-awful doctor or are you intentionally sabotaging your research “experiments” to inflate your egotistic self-delusion?

            Before you respond, the question was rhetorical. Obviously it’s the second option.

          • Josh

            Since when does visiting a doctor equate to visiting the entire medical profession?

            People should be encouraged to research things for themselves and to ask questions. Contrary to popular belief the internet has an absolutely ridiculous amount of legit information. There’s just an even greater amount of misinformation. Just like in a library you have to not only search for but know how to find the information you are seeking, and no one is born with this knowledge.

          • Graeme Condely

            which google site””” educated “” ativaccers to believe polio vaccines did not stop polio …we just got cleaner ……… OVERNIGHT AROUND THE WORLD

          • Chris

            Ah, le sigh. So true.

            Except actually getting better sewer and cleaner water is why polio became a problem in the first place.

          • Kenneth Licker

            And without the vaccination program the WHO undertook during the 1970’s, Smallpox would still be a plaque in many countries

          • Graeme Condely

            WE have educated some people beyond their intelligence ..a walk through an old cemetery will show what things were like before vaccinations…

          • Josh

            You say “we” like all doctors agree with you. They don’t. Just because you have a medical degree doesn’t mean your word represents the views and opinions of everyone else with a medical degree.

            It doesn’t take a medical degree to understand this.

          • Josh

            Know more than them about what exactly? Doctors are not omniscient gods, no single doctor is specialised in every field of medicine.

            It is rare to find find two doctors that have the exact same knowledge of a particular issue. In other words the people with the greatest scrutiny of doctors is typically other doctors.

            Ask yourself whether you’d hold these views if your cardiologist had misdiagnosed your boy or the specialised cardiology surgeon had made a fatal error on the operating table. You may underplay this like it never happens but actually it happens all the time. Doctors don’t and can’t save or help everyone.

            Consider whether you would believe blackjack to be a sound investment just because you won your first hand. Getting lucky does not equate to being right. You may simply hope or expect you’ll get a doctor that will solve your medical problems but that doesn’t mean you will.

          • Chris

            This is hilarious, especially since you do not have a clue what obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy even is (hint it is actually visible in both x-ray and echocardiogram). Perhaps you should get more hours Google U.

    • Shadeburst

      I have a fairly common back problem, scoliosis or curvature of the spine. Over the years I’ve got to know a bit about the problem. I had a doctor tell me that my chest pains were due to pleurisy although I’d informed him that I have a bad back and needed physio. And although the x-rays showed my pleural cavity was clear. I’ve also had instructors at the gym telling me that a certain exercise will strengthen my shoulder/knee/neck although the empirical evidence shows that those exercises will injure an already weak body part. Moral of the story: get a second opinion.

      • Josh

        Always get a second opinion. It’s easy to speak about doctors as if they are all part of the same super-organism but really the only thing they all share in common is that they are all human.

      • Toni Black

        Not all health insurances cover second opinions.. lol

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  • Nicola

    Please tell me this is a load of hogwash.

    • corranhornrogue9

      this is a load of hogwash

    • Chris

      It says so right in the title. Just read both lines out loud, put emphasis on the last word.

  • Donald W Nelson

    This inspired a lot of good “healthy” discussion… somewhere… probably… Just not here. 🙂

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  • Patrick McLaughlin

    So for those of you who aren’t able to tell this is complete satire. Now, I think we can all agree that there are many arrogant patients, who think they know more than their doctors, just like there are arrogant doctors who patronize their patients. This site is primarily a satirical site for those in the heath profession aimed at being able to vent and rant about difficult cases that they have had, without naming names of course. Humor is actually a very mature coping mechanism and without it may physicians would flat burn out in their careers. Being a doctor is extremely hard work regardless of the pay, and there is tremendous pressure to perform. Every day physicians go to work wondering if they are going to make a mistake and harm someone. For some that fear drives them to burnout or worse suicide. If there were no avenue to discuss difficulty trends in medicine, difficult patient behaviors, and yes laugh about the difficulties of medicine from time to time, the physician shortage in this nation would be even worse than it is. I am certainly not trying to defend a-hole physicians who have a God complex and don’t care to truly listen to their patients, nor am I saying that people shouldn’t read about their disease and come into their doctor’s visit well informed. It’s when the patient tries to discount all the years of medical education a physician has gone through to insist that the have a rare condition that they read about on the internet where things become irksome. Ultimately patients and physicians need to partner in their care and in the pursuit of wellness. I personally love the opportunity to learn from my patients and discuss various potential causes of a persons illness. I actually find it more difficult when a patient has no insight into their illness and is just blindly taking their medicines without any knowledge as to what they do. So patients keep reading… just keep an open mind when you go into your doctors office, and trust that your doctor is trying to think critically about your condition. If you don’t think your doctor is doing so, then don’t be afraid to be your own advocate and ask for a second opinion.

    • Josh

      Look I understand what you are saying and I agree with your reasoning to an extent but lets try to stay away from absolutes like “humour is actually a very mature coping mechanism” because in truth humour is not inherently mature or immature.

      And I may as well say this now: Having a refined or calculated sense of humour has nothing to do with maturity. If you think you are mature just because you can make people laugh then you’ve probably got a lot of growing up to do.

      • Micheal Garza

        I don’t think you understand the definition of an absolute.

  • Annie Connell

    I often have the opposite problem. I have a son with a rare genetic disorder and wait several months at a time to see specialist doctors specifically because I don’t know what to do…. Only to get there and have them Google his disorder in front of me, and ask what I think they should do because they have never heard of his condition and assume I actually do know more than they do! I leave those appointments frustrated because I went to the specialist to hear an expert opinion not give one.

    • Haywood Jublowme

      You aren’t going to specialists if they are googling it….

      • Toni Black

        she does have a point tho.. there are doctors who dont know the difference between trigger finger and carpal tunnel one said that trigger finger was a myth and that carpal tunnel had never harmed anyone… yea… tell that to someone who has a claw for a hand… I would have to say if they are googling shit… they probably are not keeping up with medical advances that are mandatory to keep practicing medicine… I have noticed alot of that with older doctors..

        • Dot Thompson

          Those conditions are real, if you were told otherwise you need to find a better doctor. . I was misdiagnosed and that doctor was booted out of the practice, I suspect she made a number of errors. The ones there now are excellent. In all professions there are some who are not very good. They are only human and are probably in the wrong job.

      • Christina Marie Lott

        With rare conditions, often the patient or parent does know more than, yes, even specialists. My son has down syndrome and cerebral palsy, neither of which is rare on its own, but there are only about 10 people in the entire world diagnosed with both. Doctors often have to turn to me or the internet for more info. For example, the AMA suggested about 8 to 10 years ago that neck x-rays for patients with down syndrome to screen for atlanto-axial instability no longer be done routinely, only if there are symptoms. So 7 years ago, when my son turned 3 and I asked about the screening, his doctor told me about that reversal. I went home and looked up a list of AAI symptoms so I would know what to watch for, and found that over half of AAI symptoms could easily be masked by his cerebral palsy. Symptoms such as head tilt, uneven gait, and weakness in one side are normal for people with my son’s type of cerebral palsy. We went back with the list in hand and discussed it again with his doctor, and she ordered the screening.

        There is a difference though between patients or parents Googling something and doctors Googling it. Usually parents or patients are reading “dumbed down” blogs and articles, and if you’ve ever played the game telephone, you know how an interpretation can be flawed; while doctors Google source materials such as actual studies, med journal articles, and reference materials. Because they know the medical jargon, they can read and understand the source materials and get more accurate information from the internet than we can.

        • Chris

          “… while doctors Google source materials such as actual studies, med journal articles, and reference materials.”

          My oldest has a genetic heart disorder, and he also gets migraines. Our family doctor actually had me ask one of my son’s cardiologists if my son could take a certain migraine medication.

          So at the appointment with that cardiologist I presented the question. The cardiologist looked at it, excused himself and went to the computer station near the office door. I heard a bit of keyboard clackity clack… and he came back in and said “No. Absolutely not.” Okay.

          By the way, I did a bit of searching before the appointment… and found nothing. So you have a very very good point.

          • Christina Marie Lott

            My son has a bicuspid aortic valve and migraines. He takes cyproheptadine to prevent migraines. It’s an antihistamine that happens to have a side effect of preventing migraines in children. It does double duty for us because David also has nasal allergies. He stopped using loratidine (generic claritin) when he started on the cyproheptadine. I know some antihistamines and some heart conditions don’t mix, but you or the doctors might want to look into that one if you haven’t already and if you haven’t found anything that works.

          • Chris

            Thanks. Fortunately the migraines have decreased in the last three years. (I had a notion you could relate since I have heard Down Syndrome also comes with some heart issues). I will look it up.

            The issue we had a few years ago was he would get a migraine, and then some heart palpitations, which worried him and then his head would hurt more and he would have more heart flutter. It was a terrible feedback loop. And if often included a 911 call.

            Then it happened again so bad his left arm was numb and his speech was slurred. So called 911, and this culminated into three days in a hospital as they tried to figure out was it the brain or the heart. In the end it was a “complex migraine” (it mimics a stroke), and his heart medication was not sufficient when the extra heart muscle was really starting to block flow to the aortic valve, he needed surgery. So added another cardiologist (there would be a third plus a couple of surgeons at the Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN is not my ideal vacation destination).

            He was then prescribed Xanax to take when he started to get a migraine. This reduced the anxiety, and stopped the 911 calls. The migraine medication he could not take was Imitrex, it directly affects the blood vessels. Not a good thing with the enlarged heart that has weird electrical issues. (the betablockers he takes does help a bit to prevent migraines)

            Well, the surgery helped. Unlike your son’s issue it is easier to remove tissue than to add it (looked up bicuspid aortic valve, wow!). And things have improved enough that the Xanax prescription has now expired, he hasn’t needed it for a while.

            The best to your son, who is ten years old. Oh, you are going to have fun in the next few years! I don’t mean in a bad way (even though middle school and high school can be challenging, the support system changes but fortunately there have been more programs opening up for teenagers and young adults), but kids change lots during those years. With or without disabilities.

          • Christina Marie Lott

            Oh, don’t I know it! My other 2 “kids” are 22 and 18. Lol

    • lloyd

      liar

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  • Jennerwasright

    How can you replace 7 to 11 years of medical training with a few hours of internet searching?

    • vanessa

      You can. Once you realise that of those 7 to 11 years of training, 99% is brainwashing. I would like to replace the “few” with “extensive” though; Research is not an evening of clicking and surfing; it´s dozens (if not hundreds) of hours spent searching, comparing, questioning, discussing, pondering, and most of all – active, self-driven reading (as opposed to being passively “trained” by others).

      • Chris

        So the hours I worked doing the literal math to get my engineering degree can be replaced with just lots of hours on Google? Cool! Wouldn’t it be great if anyone could become an aerospace engineer with just a bit of time on Google U.

        So how would someone go about becoming a cardiac surgeon by online researching?

        • Steve

          You wouldn’t. You’d drink kale and goja berry smoothies and not need surgery.

          • Chris

            So we didn’t need to travel to the Mayo Clinic to get the extra heart muscle that was close to blocking the aortic valve removed in my son? He just needed more smoothies!

          • vanessa

            I don´t know anything about your case. I hope your son is fine now. Your mocking me has next to nothing to do with my statement above. I never suggested to replace surgury with smoothies (although I believe that good nutrition plays a major role in one´s health; see my reply to Steve). I claimed that medical training is flawed, is ineffective given the amount of ressources invested, is led by profits rather than public health. I do recognize individual success stories and know that lives have been saved by emergency treatment. Still, the criticism remains, that today´s medicine has no answer for the rising number of chronically ill people, or for avoiding chronical illness in the first place.

          • Chris

            “I don´t know anything about your case”

            Because you obviously do not understand that there was in embedded link in the comment. Yeah, you are really good at that online research.

            By the way, a little word of advice: if you encounter a family dealing with several medical issues with their child never ever, do not ever, give them unsolicited medical “advice.” It is both unnecessary and very annoying. Though occasionally we get a good laugh at the clear stupidity of some suggestions (like the stuff you wrote on this page).

          • Sonja Henie

            Agree totally with your advice.

          • Chris

            Thanks.

            It is amazing what kind idiocy is said when you have a kid who had multiple stays in the hospital before age three, who did not talk and who had odd behaviors. Then there was the genetic heart disorder! Aargh! Do you know how much useless advice we get on preventing heart issues — sure, tell me how I was supposed to prevent the genetic sequence he was born with!

          • Sonja Henie

            I have a daughter who had a mole on her groin that started growing and became melanoma. This mole, mind you, was in a place where the sun doesn’t shine. I never saw it after she was old enough to take a bath by herself (when in had not yet started to grow), not even when she wore a two piece swimsuit. Oh, the advice, and kind of criticism! Her doctor found it when she went in for a sports physical.

          • vanessa

            I´m not here to discuss your son´s medical condition. I didn´t follow your link, I said that I hadn´t, I still wished your son well. I didn´t try to give any advice. This whole thread is about the credibility and relevance of medical schooling. Why do I need to study your son´s heart problems for that? Why do you need people to read it? Need attention?

          • vanessa

            This is obviously over-simplified, but there´s more truth to it than you´ll ever admit.

        • vanessa

          I didn´t say a word about engineering.
          But, since you´re bringing it up, both in technical and medical training, online-ressources and online training are being used. It´s totally fine by me, but it´s still just a medium, a channel of providing information, and doesn´t say anything about content or quality. And obviously, in neither case it replaces practical training or on-duty experience.

      • Sonja Henie

        “Research is not an evening of clicking and surfing;”

        No, as you said it’s dozens (if not hundreds) of hours spent searching (for anti-vax websites), comparing (one AV website to another), questioning (the CDC, FDA, WHO, AAP, and other science/health agencies) discussing (on AV message boards), pondering (one’s navel) and most of all – active, self driven reading (of anti-vax websites and being passively led by Sears, Mercola, Tenpenney et al).

        • vanessa

          If vaccines worked, no-one would question them. The questioning started because more and more cases of vaccine injury appeared. Anti-vaccination people once were pro-vaccine, they did have them administered, believed in them, and were let down. Why is that so hard to understand?

          • Sonja Henie

            Anti-vaccine people were mostly always anti-vaccine, even before they had kids. If the earth were really round, why would anyone question that?

          • vanessa

            Certainly not `mostly`. Some, yes, and that´s because at least some people take a word of warning for what it is. All others, apparently, need to experience vaccine injury themselves in order to re-think. The problem starts when what you´re being told as a fact, as the truth, as the scientific state-of-the-art contradicts with what you experience as reality. For some, the contradiction is very real and tangible, for others it´s some anecdote told by whiny people that doesn´t deserve any attention, especially when huge efforts are made to reinforce that “truth”. It really is comparable to religion, as it´s very uncomfortable to question your own reality, your belief system, it´s what people defend til the end. If you´re honest with yourself, you´ll find that my view of things isn´t a threat to anyone´s health (as I´m not doctor, I´m not treating people, not even advising people; I´m just stating my opinion), but my view of things is a major threat to many people´s belief system, hence the fierce opposition.

          • Sonja Henie

            Your actions, if you don’t vaccinate your kids, are a threat to society.

          • vanessa

            If you are vaccinated yourself and believe in the effectiveness of vaccines – why worry about anyone else´s vaccination status? Aren´t you safe now? And along with you the 90something percent of the population?

          • Sonja Henie

            Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha! I love how you AVers all use the same tired nonsense. If your kids get sick from some VPD, they can transmit it to people who can’t be vaccinated due to age (too young) or other medical contraindications. They can also get very sick themselves and use up a lot of health care resources, and maybe need services for life, ie, if they lose their hearing, vision, limbs, mental capacity.

          • vanessa

            Too young? Even premature babies get vaccinated these days. And medical contraindications? There are places where medical exemptions are ruled out now. That surely is to your liking. As for people losing their hearing, vision, limbs or mental capacity due to the contraction of VPD – I cannot see any epidemic of such cases that would pose a significant burden to public health care resources. If you know of any, please direct me to them. If there were many such cases, they´d be all over the news.

          • Sonja Henie

            You continue to display your ignorance! Keep it up! You will really impress people.

            Yes, preemie infants get vaccinated. ALL the infant vaccines require 2-3 doses for the complete series before there is full protection. Most kids are at least 6 months old before they’ve had the full series.

            It’s a bold faced LIE that there are places where medical exemptions are ruled out. Lying liars lie lots.

            Measles and mumps can both cause deafness. I have a hearing loss that is from one or the other, per an audiologist. Measles can also cause vision problems. Hib meningitis can cause deafness and loss of limbs plus other neuro sequalae. All of the above can cause mental deficiencies. ONE CASE is a cost to society.

          • Chris

            “Too young? Even premature babies get vaccinated these days.”

            Show us great you are at research:tell us at what age the MMR and varicella vaccines given.

            “There are places where medical exemptions are ruled out now.”

            Where? Provide the link to the states’ official education vaccination page detailing how medical exemptions are not allowed.

            “I cannot see any epidemic of such cases that would pose a significant burden to public health care resources.”

            Possibly due to the quality of your research:

            Pediatrics. 2010 Apr;125(4):747-55. doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1653.
            Measles outbreak in a highly vaccinated population, San Diego, 2008: role of the intentionally undervaccinated.

            Which says: “Two-dose vaccination coverage of 95%, absence of vaccine failure, and a vigorous outbreak response halted spread beyond the third generation, at a net public-sector cost of $10 376 per case.”

            Pediatric hospital admissions for measles. Lessons from the 1990 epidemic.

            Which says: “Hospital costs amounted to $18 million, two thirds of which was paid for by Medi-Cal. Measles is a serious disease that can result in severe complications requiring lengthy and costly hospital stays.”

            There will probably be a paper outlining the public health costs of the recent Disney measles outbreak in a year or so (real research takes time). The Disney measles outbreak and the other two periods were all over the news, so I am surprised that you were not aware of them. You must have also missed this news story:
            http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-measles-sspe-20150624-story.html

          • vanessa

            Chris. I know when various vaccines are given. And the fact that some are given straight after birth with “full effectiveness” yet others cannot be given until 4months of age or 6months or whatever (this even varies in various countries!) because the baby´s body allegedly isn´t mature enough for a proper immune response is stupid in itself. The age at which any vaccine is given is therefore irrelevant as it´s totally randomly chosen. Also, If unvaccinated people were a serious risk for babies too young to be “protected” then there would be thousands of infants sick with those diseases. There isn´t any significant number of such cases. And don´t tell me now that that is thanks to herd immunity, when it is clear that large parts of the adult population is NOT up to date with “necessary” vaccines “crutial” to even their very own babies´s health. As for medical exemptions: very difficult to obtain because
            almost all medical reasons for delaying or withholding vaccines have
            been eliminated by government and medical trade officials. So, yes, officially there´s an exemption available but it´s worthless because you can get it only if you´re almost dead.

            If you look at the financial burden: The costs you´re stating is nothing. It´s peanuts. It´s sooo little for a public health care system that throws around billions and billions of dollars. From an economic point of view for an entire nation, it´s absolutely laughable.
            (On a side note, I´d like to point out that your very source analysing the financial burden of that measles outbreak states an average hospital stay of 4.6 days. And those are the cases with complications! Because all the others, about 80% of the patients stayed at home. Only to give a bit of perspective of how dangerous and threatening those nasty measles are…)

            As for that Disney “outbreak” – please. Yes it was all over the media, but it was hardly an epidemic and it was harmless. Low number of cases, zero fatalities. Again laughable as an “epidemic”.

            You can have the last word now. I`ll stop wasting my time here.

          • Chris

            Why did you not answer my request? Just tell us what age the MMR and varicella vaccines are given.

            I’ll give you a hint: it is not six months.

          • Mike Stevens

            You think vaccines don’t work?

            I think your own “research” is pretty limited if that is the case.

          • “If vaccines worked, no-one would question them.” Bullshit. People are wrong sometimes.

            ” The questioning started because more and more cases of vaccine injury appeared.” No. More and more cases of believed vaccine injury appeared but so what? This has nothing to do with worked or not. “Safe and effective” does not mean “Perfect.”

            “. Anti-vaccination people once were pro-vaccine, they did have them administered, believed in them, and were let down. Why is that so hard to understand?” It’s not. I understand the concept – however, realistically, there simply aren’t enough vaccine injuries for all the claims of vaccine injuries to be true. I never believed in vaccines though, I understood them.

            There are other issues too, for example:

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4ba73397dcca2be8362cbc9fd89f22297e88c4ae854ba5751601f7f76e30dbab.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8ffec5697e460265ee28bd6b36ab31252a6df940b0efbb0ca38722cccf396637.jpg

      • Dot Thompson

        Browsing the internet, no matter how many unproductive hours you waste reading mommy blogs and anti-vax tripe, is not research. Vanessa I hope your next operation is performed by your friendly neighbourhood barber. Think of the money you’ll save. No need for an anesthetist with 10 year’s training, just bite on a stick.

        • vanessa

          I am always puzzled at how people discredit the internet as a source of information, as if it was all by one, unreliable source. The internet is not A source, it´s a medium, it´s as credible or non-credible as all books ever written combined. If you think that browsing the internet is unproductive and a waste of time, then you must say the same about browsing a library. But of course you´ll now say that a library is different because it has all the scientific books (as if the internet didn´t…) and no blogs and such – well, check the library more closely; you´ll find that most books at libraries are NOT written by scientists!). As to mommy blogs and anti-vax talk – taking into account first hand experiences told by affected families is fair game, it´s empirical data. Empirical data is the very sort of data the medical community uses, only they call it clinical research. That´s the very foundation that the medical science is based on. Now, you´ll of course say that what the mummies say doesn´t have to be true, they´re surely all lying, maybe they just want attention, we should dismiss them all and see all those individual cases reported as mere coincidences, like the experts suggest. Is that possible? All lying? All coincidences? Thousands of cases all made-up? That´s where I´m struggling. It´s just not credible.

          As for surgeons and anesthetists – I didn´t say that they don´t need training. You obviously cannot become either without proper training. Both are needed for emergency treatment. But – and you´ll have to give me that – a good surgeon is not a good surgeon because of medical training (the formal education s/he goes through) but because of experience. It´s because of seeing and performing procedures first-hand, because of practice, because of trying things and see what works and what doesn´t. And we´re back at empirical learning. In other words, it´s a learning-by-doing sort of process, and the rate of failure is high. (Of course, this is not politically correct to say, and doctors are those hero-like saints in the eyes of many; but you´ve got to wonder, why, after 7-11 years of training, after billions of dollars invested into their education, into research, into developing medical equipment.. the success rate is so shockingly low). Can I be a better surgeon after browsing the internet? No, because I don´t have access to the equipment, and I don´t have the experience. Can I be a better GP after browsing the internet? Possibly. Because the success rate amongst formally trained GP is shockingly low as well, and it´s almost zero when it comes to dealing with chronic illness. As soon as the medical experts start healing people (rather than just treating their symptoms) and as soon as they adress people´s warranted concerns and criticism and observe people´s rights (as opposed to mandate consuming their products), I´m willing to listen to them again.

      • There’s no other way of putting it Vanessa but you are a moron…

    • Lacey Gentry

      When you realize that 7-11 years of training encompasses learning everything about the human body, general information about every disease, illness, and injury known to man, step by step instructions on how to do procedures, training in ethics, and detailed instructions on how to fill out a prescription. There is not enough time in a lifetime for one doctor to become an expert about everything that could go wrong with the human body, so doctors are basically jacks of all trades. A motivated patient or parent who is living with the effects of a specific illness can learn more about their condition, and come into contact with more people who have it on the internet or in support groups, than the average physician will ever see. I grew up in a town of 40,000 people. By best friend has a rare disease. In 36 years there has been one person in our entire county diagnosed with her disease, and it took decades of trips to different doctors and a DNA test to finally identify it. Trust me, she is more knowledgeable about her condition and what does and does not work as far as treatments go than any doctor within a hundred mile radius of her home. Most of the doctors she comes in contact with for unrelated care have never even heard of what she has, and have to be educated as to why their treatment plan for her cannot be used in her case.

      • Mike Stevens

        Some patients know more about the arcane details of their unusual diseases than their doctors do, true.
        But knowing that recent research studies in mice showed agent xyz improved T-cell function is not a substitute for experience and clinical nous in how the body works and knowing when, what and how something might or might not work and what other factors to consider when planning treatment for example.

  • dennis coles

    Hmmm, don’t think I would want my Dad to do an appendectomy on me.

    • James K

      He might be better than you think.

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  • FloxieHope

    Yes, of course I realize that this is satire. But my serious reply is that the people who are resisting the status quo, who are saying that the iatrogenic death toll is unacceptable, who are not okay with adverse drug reactions being dismissed because “all drugs have side-effects,” who are sick of being dismissed as hysterical or told that their symptoms are all in their head, who want safer vaccines, etc. want the system to be better. They want to be able to trust their doctors. They want to be safe with their doctors, and when their doctors accidentally hurt them, they want access to help, support, and, when appropriate, justice. They’re not nihilists – or, at least, most of them aren’t. The millions of articles that are available on the internet help patients to keep their doctors honest and up-to-date. Informed patients, and informed consent, are good for the system. They may not be comfortable for doctors, or anyone else who doesn’t want to confront the current, broken, system. But checks and balances, and cutting the power of a generally unchecked system, are both, actually, good.

    • Tom

      “The millions of articles that are available on the internet help patients to keep their doctors honest and up-to-date.”

      You’ve completely missed the point.

      • Josh

        Well he didn’t. He clearly states at the beginning of his post that he realises this is satire (in other words he got the point).

        Ironically it is you who (willingly or not) missed the point of his post.

        • Haywood Jublowme

          He said he realized it but his entire post after that disagrees.

        • Tom

          No, the irony is that he said he realised it’s satire, but then falls into the exact thinking that the article is mocking.

      • vanessa

        He hasn´t missed the point. Satire only works where there is controversy. And with any controversy, there´s truth to both sides. While satire is mocking, exaggeration, and humor, it also always points out flaws in society, and this so-called health-care system is a prime example. It is in my view not the point to understand satire as pure comedy; the point with satire is to see and understand the controversy pointed out. And any further discussion that comes of it is very much the point of satire.

    • Haywood Jublowme

      It’s not an “unchecked system.” You just want somebody else to check it, it’s not the governments job, nor should they even be involved.

      It’s YOUR body and YOUR life, YOU are the check. Like you say, more information than you could need is out there for the taking. If your doctor prescribes something with adverse side effects that you aren’t comfortable taking the risk with, get this (I know it’s way out there), but YOU CAN SAY NO!

      And by “safer” vaccines you mean??? Ones that have adverse reactions to less than .3% of the population that have very specific medical conditions, as vaccines do NOW?
      Or do you mean ones that don’t cause autism………..

    • jeffgoin

      Balance. Having informed patient’s is a plus within a range. When the doctor can’t do his job because the patient says that Areba Juice will cure their cancer or that this medication is bad because Dr. Newage says so, will be a detractor.

      WHAT sources are used is important.

    • JohnnyRelentless

      You’re not describing people who want to trust their doctors. You’re describing people who don’t want to trust their doctors. You’re describing people who want to pat themselves on the back because they’ve convinced themselves they are smarter and more knowledgeable than their doctors. And in order to be able to maintain that self delusion they have to believe their doctors are untrustworthy.

    • No system is perfect, but the one we have, in the western world, is the best so far. “Informed patients” are myth. “Checks and balances” are implemented already, you’ve just never bother to check or/and you’re ignorant. There is no conspiracy or big farma, vaccines are as safe as they can be, you sound exactly like someone who’d make things up to have their way. Someone who cherry picks facts to prove a “theory”.

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  • TTH

    Finally! There is a God! I never thought I would see the day this actually happened.

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  • EdEKit

    OK, now when I break my hip, I get to wait until my sister, the nurse, can get to Phoenix from Seattle. Makes sense to me, if I can get adequate pain meds.

  • Umta-ta

    i’ve done my research and came to the conclusion that i rather let physicians do the icky work with sick people.

    • Elise

      Those doing the icky work are the nurses….

      • be kind

        Wellll, those doing the ickiest work are the orderlies.

  • eltiare

    Informed consent, yo.

  • Eric Marsh

    Let me tell you a true story.

    A couple years ago my wife and I returned to the US from Europe. The next day she ate some junk food and started experiencing significant pain. She did some web research (Janet is an intelligent woman) and concluded that the symptoms sounded like those of pancreatitis.

    After an emergancy room visit she was referred to doctor #1, and Asian man. When she told him what she had discovered he rolled his eyes at her. We followed his advice and she had an invasive proceedure. It made no difference.

    Over the next year we were referred from one doctor to the next and each of them tested her for whatever they specialized in. She was given the works. Ultrasounds, MRIs, she had her gall bladder removed. The heart doctor tried to put her on permanent pain therapy. Janet mostly lived on broth because eating made it hurt so badly and her weight went from 145 to 115.

    We were finally referred to a pancreatitis specialist. His first comment was that yes Janet had classical symptoms and why hadn’t any of the other doctors recognized them? The FIRST THING THAT SHE ASKED EACH OF THEM WAS, “DO YOU THINK IT COULD BE PANCREATITIUS?”

    By this time her pancreatitis had become chronic, She lives with the pain every day and her medicine costs about $1200 a month.

    So I don’t want to see anyone get on their high horses about patients doing their own research. Doctors don’t always do such a great job of it either.

    • Chris O

      Mmmmm… No.

      Or at least your story isn’t as cut an dry as you make it out to be.

      1) Acute pancreatitis is not caused by eating junk food
      2) Acute pancreatitis is a very serious condition that lands patients in hospital on supportive therapy until the body recovers. It is excruciatingly painful and not something that you can just go home and live with for a year. Untreated it has a very high mortality in the matter of days.
      2) I find it quite hard to believe that the attending ER physician did not order a serum amylase and/or serum lipase to investigate pancreatitis as part of his differential diagnosis
      3) I’m curious what this “invasive test” was at the hospital that made no difference
      4) Ultrasounds may have revealed pancreatitis, but an MRI scan of the abdomen DEFINITELY would have revealed pancreatitis had it been present.
      5) Gallbladders aren’t just removed willy/nilly and hers wouldn’t have been removed as a “let’s see if this works!” attempt at a solution, unless there was something wrong with it. Although the most common cause of acute pancreatitis is a gallstone.
      6) If you aren’t making this whole thing up, I have no doubt that your wife had some sort of complex medical problem that brought her to the ER, but it definitely was not slam dunk pancreatitis.
      7) Many, many things can cause chronic pancreatitis.

      This is not the presentation for pancreatitis. Even if she originally had presented with acute pancreatitis, there is nothing they could have done. The only treatment for acute pancreatitis is supportive care (meaning pain management and maintaining adequate fluid and nutrition status).

      • CzChick23

        Acute pancreatitis might be caused by a gallstone stuck in the duct….the colic that gets it there might be cause by junk food.
        Last year I got pancreatitis after I had my very first gallbladder attack which was caused by delicious ribs.
        And my gallbladder was removed as “let’s see if it works” – i had no visible stones left but kept having issues.

      • Eric Marsh

        Everything is exactly as I reported it. To respond to your items in order:

        1> I won’t say that the junk food triggered it but it was triggered within a day or two of when we returned from Europe to the US and within hours of her eating a hotdog, chips and other junk food.

        2> She was in extreme pain and we visited the emergency room for it a couple times. The pain came in episodes and would settle down after a couple hours. Since the hospital didn’t make a diagnosis they just sent her home.

        3> Until a diagnosis was made all the doctors were clueless. Perhaps they resented the fact that their patient came with her own (correct) idea of what it might be. I don’t know. We dealt with a number of specialists and each of them tried to view the issue from within their own specialties and when they couldn’t find an answer they referred her to the next one.

        4> She had two ultrasounds, a CAT scan, a colonoscopy, three endoscopies, two MRIs, a nuclear stress test for her heart, many blood tests, a fecal tests. I still have the images from some of those tests.

        5> The gall bladder surgery was one doctor’s solution. He thought that there might be a gallstone. After the surgery he didn’t find one but said that perhaps there was a tiny one that he didn’t see that might affect the sphincter of oddi. It didn’t fix the problem.

        6> Her pancreatitus specialist diagnosed it as acute pancreatitus. He said that her symptoms are classic and could not believe that the other doctors had not picked up on the condition. (Especially after Janet pointed them in that direction.) She has had several celiac blocks since that time and they ease the pain for a while. She has to take Zenpep with each meal now.

        The simple fact is that from the beginning based on research that she had done my wife identified what was at that time the probable cause. It turned out that she was correct. For whatever reason close to a half dozen doctors chose to dismiss the information that she provided them and were unable to diagnose what the specialist called “classical symptoms.”

        If you think that I’m BSing you we can probably find the medical bills.

      • JanetMermaid

        You SERIOUSLY don’t know what you are talking about. I am the patient Eric talks about.
        1. No shit. But it was the junk food that triggered the first attack. Ever hear of GENETICS dufus? My mother had the same issue, although we didn’t realize at the time that it was genetic. It was just her “sensitive system”.
        2. Not all doctors hospitalize pancreatitis patients. When I finally reached doctor #8, he specifically said he chooses not to hospitalize unless there is no choice. I am not an alcoholic, so managing and adjusting my diet and lifestyle was not as challenging.
        2. (You repeated this number twice, so I am, too.) Ever been to the ER in a small town? ‘Nuff said.
        3. The first doctor ordered a breath test for H-Pylori and then he did an endoscopy to look for an ulcer. Both were negative. The endoscopy, of course, is done under anesthesia. ANY procedure done in a hospital under anesthesia that includes invading a part of the body is “invasive” and can include complications.
        4. Wrong. You’re just plain WRONG here.
        5. I had “sandy” gallstones, which might have originally contributed to the pancreatitis, but removing it did not eliminate it. And ask 20 people with gut issues how many had their gall bladders removed as a “standard” solution. MOST will say they did. Gall bladder removal is the 21st century equivalent of tonsillectomy surgeries from the 60s.
        6. Oh yes, I made the whole thing up — 8-1/2 months of extreme pain, a 50 pound weight loss because I was unable to eat actual food (it came up, went down, or sat like a flame-thrower in my gut). I lived on broth and the occasional soda cracker. You finally said ONE thing right — it was not “classic” pancreatitis in that it was not triggered by alcoholism.
        7. True, but too many doctors dismiss the possibility if you don’t have a drinking problem.

        You CLEARLY are not a female. Most male doctors (most gastroenterologists are male) are notorious about dismissing a female patient. I filed a complaint on the first doctor — the one who rolled his eyes at me. When I finally reached Dr. Sandeep Patel (http://digestivedisease.uthscsa.edu/patel.asp) he was not shocked it had taken so long to be referred to him. He said many of his 3000 (yes THREE THOUSAND) patients were dismissed by other doctors until finally reaching him. He also said I had classic pancreatitis symptoms.

        Too bad I didn’t get to him sooner — I’d have saved 8-1/2 months of pain and almost $150,000 of medical bills.

        • Asmodeus789

          Femnazi triggered

          • JanetMermaid

            Aw, widdle Asmodeus is scared of me.

          • Asmodeus789

            There we go. Playing the “I am older than you”-card. Well, can’t really expect anyone calling someone else a “dufus” to come up with something better.
            I don’t really get the “ever been to the ER in a small town”… you should probably take that up with your local politicians since you obviously have an issue with that.
            “4. Wrong. You’re just plain WRONG here.” – PLEASE point out why he is wrong… since you (by the way you present yourself, obviously know a LOT more than any of us). God forbid you may have a google-degree or something.

            But anyways….

            Your: “You CLEARLY are not a female. Most male doctors (most gastroenterologists are male) are notorious about dismissing a female patient. ” this is what puts you off as an angry and mad at everything vibe. By the same generalization I will say that you are CLEARLY a triggered femnazi.

          • be kind

            MRA triggered. I think JanetMermaid is getting details wrong if we have two medical professionals pointing out the parts of her story that don’t make sense and her only response is to get angry with them.

            However, WTH? Feminazi (hah! you did not even spell it correctly)? Heaven forbid a woman should be angry at someone – we better call her a stupid name. Check yourself, Asmodeus!

        • Mike Stevens

          1. What is this “genetic” pancreatitis?
          2. If your initial attack was one of acute pancreatitis, you’d usually be sick enough to warrant emergency admission. People with it are so sick they can’t keep anything down, get severely dehydrated from the vomiting and require IV fluid resuscitation and injectable analgesia.
          2. By your “8th” doctor, your symptoms were probably rather different. If 8 doctors thought you didn’t need admission, I’d say you probably didn’t for most of those episodes.
          The likelihood of 8 doctors failing to order an amylase in someone with typical symptoms consistent with pancreatitis is virtually nil.
          It’s part of the standard panel for abdo pain and vomiting, anyway.
          3. Upper GI Endoscopy is not done under general anaesthesia, unless something quite unusual is going on.
          4. Nope, he’s right. MRI scan would have shown pancreatitis, either acute or chronic would be revealed. (CT scans only image the pancreatic bed with difficulty, and bowel gas will obscure images).
          5. So you did have gallstones. As you say, these can trigger pancreatitis frequently. Good you had a cholecystectomy then.
          6. You may well have or had chronic pancreatitis. Unfortunately it isn’t easily treated, and even recognition of earlier attacks of acute flare ups would not have resulted in some miraculous cure, so the delay in diagnosis would not have altered the eventual outcome. You wouldn’t have saved any money with an earlier diagnosis.. In fact since enzyme replacement is so expensive, you probably saved money through not getting prescribed any for a year or so.
          Enzymes are not a cure, they just replace some of the secretory function which is deficient in chronic pancreatitis.

          I am sorry you have had such a bad time, I can understand why you are upset. In the UK where I practice medicine, your treatment and tests would be free on the NHS of course.

          Dr Sandeep sounds a little narcissistic if you ask me. What a coincidence that so many of his “3000” patients were misdiagnosed by other doctors, huh? How does he have 3000 patients, anyhow? If each of them is worth $5000 to him (conservative ballpark figure) why hasn’t he retired to his Bahamas condo years ago?

          • Eric Marsh

            Mike, it looks to me like you got religion. You know, that state where you will interpret everything so that it aligns with your preconceived belief system. Funny thing is I originally found this post in a pro-science group. You know science, it’s an evidence based methodology used to derive knowledge baseed on observations of the real world. Obviously that’s not where you found it.

          • JanetMermaid

            Wow aren’t you full of yourself. You took exactly the stance of the 8 doctors who ignored me questions about pancreatitis. You may be a doctor but you are just as dismissive and arrogant as the male doctors I encountered here.

            1. You know… genetics? A predisposition to have similar health issues as one’s parents. I also inherited a propensity to migraines, severe female issues (resulting in hysterectomy in my early 20s), ulcers, and bad knees. Probably where my brown eyes came from, too, although I’m not ruling out eating too much chocolate as a kid.

            2. You weren’t there. The pain was so severe I nearly passed out multiple times. I avoided the nausea and diarrhea because I STOPPED EATING. I consumed nothing but broth for months. The occasional attempt to eat actual food resulted in a severe attack that usually sent me back to the ER. But this is the US. Unless you are carrying one of your appendages in a separate satchel, you’re unlikely to get admitted. And NO ONE did an amylase test, in spite of my specific, repeated requests that I be tested. It almost seemed that the mere fact that I asked for that test resulted in their adamant claims that I did not need it.

            3. I was “put under” EVERY TIME they did an endoscopic procedure. I cannot name the specific anesthesia formulation used.

            4. I had three MRIs, although one was specifically to check my heart, because THAT doctor was convinced my problem was heart disease. No doctor diagnosed pancreatitis from either of the other two MRIs.

            5. I had gall “sand” — the “stones” were sand-grain-sized. They did initially think perhaps at least one had escaped surgery and entered my pancreatic duct. That was the reason for the second endoscopy. To check that duct, the bile duct, and the sphincter of oddi.

            6. I am well aware that Zenpep is not a cure. It allows me to eat without (too much) pain. The celiac blocks also help. But I will be stuck with this for the rest of my life. Not a pleasing thought.

            Dr. Sandeep Patel is the Director of Gastroenterology at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio. He has invented and patented specialty equipment. He has written multiple white papers about non-alcohol related pancreatitis. He does not take appointments or walk-in patients. He takes referrals when less knowledgeable and experienced doctors give up and send patients to him. How dare you cop an attitude about him. I was lucky to finally find and be seen by a man with his credentials.

          • Mike Stevens

            1. I know about genetics. Acute (or chronic) pancreatitis is not a hereditary condition, no matter how much you want it to be.
            2. This doesn’t pass the smell test I’m afraid.
            3. If a centre is using GAs to do upper GI endoscopy, they must have some money making scam going. It is far from normal procedure.
            4. You seem to be particularly unfortunate in your choice of other doctors too. 8 of them could not diagnose pancreatitis despite “classical presentation” and none did the routine blood panel all patients with abdo pain get, and twice the radiologists missed it on MRI scanning.
            5. At least they did one thing right.

            There is always more than one side to any story. I’d imagine the narrative from the 8 doctors and 2 radiologists might be at variance from yours, somehow.

      • Ts

        Mmmm no…Seriously, you must need double doors in every room you walk into to allow your inflated ego in. Anyone who has been sick learns pretty quickly that no two people are alike and some people don’t fall with in the “standard” diagnostic criteria. She probably had pancreatic insuffiency which is pretty spot on to what he described. My story is very similar, i also had my gallbladder removed and yes it was because it was their best guess and it was slightly sluggish, it was not the problem, many doctors and tests later with zero diagnosis or improvement and we decided to take a pancreatic enzyme to see if it helped because if it wasn’t the pancreas it wouldn’t help but if it was it would be immediate. It was and it did and he is correct they are about $1200 a month. Also my youngest daughters heart used to stop, she would hit the ground, have a seizure and then slowly come back. I watched her pulse go to zero on pulse ox, i felt it go to zero in my hand, the prestigous childrens hospital we went to said although your seizures rule out syncope (fainting) we r going to call it simple syncope. thanks to my pushing and not accepting a stupid diagnosis we eventually switched hospitals and docs who had experience w my daughters condition and they did a test where they confirmed she was going into cardiac arrest, and why and why her system seemed to reboot on its own. She has a condition know as dsyautonomia. my oldest daughter has dsyautonomia as well and became very ill this past year eveyone assumed it was the dsyautonomia progressing, my gut kept saying something was the catalyst for this sudden onset of worse symptoms. Thru my research I forced my husband who is a doctor to run a lyme test and she was cdc positive . So yes this article is satire, but the reality is that when u or someone u love lives w major illness, with the internet you can read all the same articles the docs do, jama,ect. There is a place in your health care for intuition, and instinct. Doctors are amazing and necessary but they are also not infallible and they usual know what they know and if you dont fit in their preconceived box they don’t think you have it. I was diagnosed at 18 w lupus, 7 years later i moved to a new state, my doctor did not believe i had lupus, actually told my husband he flat out did not beleive me until i got pregnant and my kidney functions decreased and lupus flared. He actually apologized to me for doubting my diagnosis.. It’s ok to question someone but when they are sharing their experience you do not have to be so snarky and negative and beat that person down.

      • Michael Castro

        Well, you did your research, didn’t you?

    • Ruth

      Why was the first doctor’s race relevant?

      • Eric Marsh

        Why not mention it? It’s just one of the details that came to mind as I mentally reviewed our experiences. What I remember is that his attitude was somewhat condescending.

        • Ruth

          I notice that white people ( and I don’t know if you are white ) tend to mention race when referring to a person who happens to be another race. If the doctor had been white / caucasian, you’d probably have left his race out of it. In my experience, doctors of all races can be very condescending and arrogant.

          • Eric Marsh

            I was just mentally reconstructing the scene. Actually I think he was Chinese. He was young too. In comparison to his arrogant attitude the doctor who just did a colonoscopy for me was very helpful. And to fill out the picture he’s short, a bit overweight, about my age and Indian.

          • Ruth

            The ‘my age’ bit doesn’t really help since I don’t know your age. 48? 63?

          • Eric Marsh

            62. The point I was trying to make is that these things are all part of the memory.

          • Miss

            Ahhhh the memories! of people’s ethnicity

            it would be morally wrong to leave race out of a retelling of a story that involves a doctor or other professional

          • Eric Marsh

            I find it strange that people believe certain characteristics should not be mentioned. Glasses, OK. Red hair, OK. Sex, OK. Age, OK. Race, not OK.

          • Christy Golden

            Agreed. I do so get tired of overly touchy folk ie the easily offended type. I note it tends to haunt the young and insecure, but can be found in victims of all ages. Many tend to even have similar voting habits, another symptom of this as yet-to-be named dis-ease. The only solution is the abolition of human discriminatory powers.

          • vanessa

            Also, bringing the focus on the race aspect conveniently distracts from the fact that they had nothing to say about the actual point of the initial comment.

          • Miss

            I find it strange that you’re so insistent & boring about it

          • Joseph Reed

            The only people being insistent are those intent on convincing him how wrong he is. Why should he acquiesce to your borish insistence that there’s something wrong with him? Get over it. You’re all histrionic.

          • Haley Jo Andrews

            But not really relevant to the point you were trying to make, or a useful part of the story.

    • EV

      Would you be happy if a generalist tell you that you are right it’s pancreacitis without doing all the lab testing?
      And of course a specialist knows better and likes to blame generalist in general to show off a little bit.
      My husband also guessed a lot and did research about his sickness, me too actually and it’s not always proven right (after we met a specialist), although sometimes it’s right, and now (after I read your comment) I know why we are not always right in guessing our sickness after internet research: because we are not as smart or as intelligent as your wife!

    • EV
      • Eric Marsh

        Your responses are so mature. Did I gore your ox?.

    • Chazz1918

      Why didn’t you go to a pancreatic specialist sooner?

      • Eric Marsh

        Because we trusted the doctors. Silly us.

  • Jeremy Lomman

    Having returned from Asia with a crazy fever, I went to see a GP. He proceeded to Google my symptoms in front of me. True.

    • CzChick23

      Many doctors do research especially when it’s something they are not familiar with. It’s better for them to look things up (no worries, they don’t use webMD) than pretend they are all-knowing. However, his understanding of it is a bit different than that of a lay person.

    • Sheree Honeyflower

      I have seen a Doctor do this as well. Only he seriously misdiagnosed my child for having a hernia.

    • Sonja Henie

      He was probably looking up Asian diseases you don’t encounter here.

      • brad mayeux

        yeah, you should have just fixed yourself
        we should all do that
        no need for pesky doctors…
        what do they know ?

  • Wesley Edwards

    I’ve been treated like I was too stupid to understand my condition by a doctor before. They take your money and spend less than 5 minutes with you. I know they don’t get paid to explain the ins and outs of medical care, but this is a person’s life and they are paying you purely for your expertise. You owe us a decent explanation even if it costs more. We could get drugs on the black market cheaper than paying a doctor. It’s not just about the script.

    • Michael Castro

      If your doctor is consistently spending only 5 minutes with you, you need a new doctor.

  • Wesley Edwards

    Also the article switches between parents and patients without clarification so it seems like a typo. That should be fixed even on a satire piece.

  • Barney Dunn

    I have been to many doctors over the past couple of years and they all spent 45 to 60 minutes with me. Not sure why all these people who say they got 5 or 10 minutes with a doctor accept that as normal. It isn’t. We asked around our community who are the good doctors and we found them easily. Showing up at the minute clinic you will get your minute. Do some research.

  • Oh I do so love the comments on this satire piece. Where’s my popcorn and where is my WebMD app so I can understand what all you experts are talking about? One more thing, dis some of you get a job at the aforementioned hospital?

  • Ted_Fontenot

    One can learn enough to ask intelligent questions so as to be informed. And to test whether those medical people are familiar with your particular problem. They may not be. Many doctors and medical people resent that. They want you to take them on faith. To them, you’re a commodity, which is not how you may see yourself.

  • Michael Castro

    “…other, less innovative health centers.” Huge LOL

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